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The RS100 Owners Thread |
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 Topic: The RS100 Owners ThreadPosted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:46pm |
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Nick, yep, heard you were sailing a solo. For goodness sake man what's happened to you. The biggest dinghy fleet where I am is the scow, but wild horses..............
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:40pm |
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Ok, well I had the Rs100 for a season and I have been sailing the D-one for 5 weeks. The real issue is that any boat where a single bloke is going to handle a decent sized sail plus a decent sized spinnaker in a boat that is going to sail under 1000 is going to be a handful in a breeze. Both boats are reasonably easy for a competent dinghy sailor up to say 12 knots. However once the breeze builds either will need plenty of practice. In my opinion neither is a boat you can drop in and out of, having not sailed for a few weeks and expect to sail them easily in a good breeze. They both demand practice as well as the racing and plenty of sailors just don't have that free time with busy lives and families, but perhaps got carried away, yes, perhaps bought into the hype at the time and thought 'well once I crack it, that's it' . Unfortunately, unless you are a small handful of non mortals, that is definitely not 'it'. In my opinion the 100 is a bit more tricky, it has more rocker and less leverage upwind so you have to work harder. I am one of the sailors that for a proportion of the year has my 3-4 hours on a Sunday morning, but no more, so I have the practice issue. Is the d one attainable - hell yes, is it a great boat up and downwind - yes, but do I have the time available to be able to sail it competitively on a breezy rough sea without practice.. err probably and sadly not. I have even considered buying a secondhand one and agreeing a kite free py with my club as it is still easy to gybe with just the main up and the wings are the most comfortable hikers going. You sit high out of the spray and can look around - That is the aptly named D 0.5 !
So in answer to mike as well, I personally don't think the sailing masses need another kite singlehander. The only way to really reduce the practice time is more stability, which is slow unless you go multihull like a Weta. A lightweight blaze style boat with hiking benches a la d-one is a great idea.... but the blaze class association may not like that one  .........unless you want to have very big b**ls like the Supernova class and say to hell with it let's take unnecessary weight out anyway! It caused a lot of grumbling when it happened, but two years later the regular sailors have migrated and the class is stronger than it's ever been. May make 65 + at the nationals which would have been unthinkable 3 years ago. The blaze is the only 'everyman boat' with leverage and a single sail, so it has a real usp. I am actually quite surprised their hasn't been another, but that's because Mikes done such a good job with it. The Dzero and the aero, the blaze (and of course the Supernova etc) are however boats that will be fast on the sea in a breeze and will of course benefit from practice, but sail one every Sunday and you will have a good time without having having to reacclimatise to often.
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Nick Peters
Posting king 
Joined: 08 Feb 06 Location: England Online Status: Offline Posts: 192 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:38pm |
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Just caught up with this thread - and yes, well said Clive! As some of you know I was responsible for the development of the RS100, as I was for virtually the entire RS range up until the end of 2011.
I have often looked back at the classes and wondered what we might have done differently with the benefit of hindsight...and frankly the RS100 rates up there with the best in my view - it is what it is, and is pretty darn good at what it does. Interestingly the centreboard was voted for by 48 of 53 people who were involved in the consultation - and boy does it help to be able to rake it from hiking if the breeze increases. What would we have done differently? Well, of course, probably one rig - the market felt big enough for 2 rigs when we started and when catering for 70-100kgs weight range, hard to see how one does the job. The situation was exacerbated by many sailors buying 8.4s due to lack of confidence when they were clearly big enough for the 10.2. This feeds into the sh market and the problem continues. Of course you could say the class is now a one rig boat with the unique benefit of standard equipment, class rules and structure allowing greater growth of the bigger rig class in the future. As you know the boat was never the subject of a glamorous marketing campaign - we consulted a huge number of customers, created this thread on this forum, and went to boat shows....and you know what, sailors just wanted the boat, and still do - it keeps on selling! (mind you I am not involved now, but I hear good reports). Our experience was consistently that after 3-5 years of a racing class' life upto 10% of the boats built would be up for sale at any one time - this was true of the 200, 300, 400, 600, 700, and 800. So 15 boats is actually very healthy. We often panicked and wondered what we had done wrong - but the reality is that many people buy a desirable product who find it is not for them and it takes time for those boats to find the right owners. The RS300 was the ultimate example of that - at one time 20% of all boats built were evidently for sale - now look! Classes that grew more slowly - like the MPS - did not show this trend. (Interestingly I gather last year the 700 outsold the MPS, so what goes around comes around - there are no rights or wrongs to any of this that i can see) The RS100 will remain one of my favourite boats of all time, and actually upwind in a breeze with the 10.2 fully bladed out, the board a third up, working the sheet and locked into a comfy hiking position is right up there great sailing memories. I sail a Solo now most of the time because we have a huge fleet (upto 25 boats for a club race, and an average of 13 for every race) makes for great racing in our tidally restricted harbour. Do I look forward to sailing the Solo like I did the 100 - of course not! Nick.
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Nick
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iGRF
Really should get out more 
Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:24pm |
Er.. I was in the seventies and I hate to burst your love bubble, but ....... |
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blaze720
Really should get out more
Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:17pm |
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Back in the 70's, the Laser was a sexy boat!
... and we thought we were as well....  Mike L. |
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Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:11pm |
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Back in the 70's, the Laser was a sexy boat!
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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fab100
Really should get out more
Joined: 15 Mar 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1005 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 7:53pm |
Ah, but that's my point - i disagree it that the 100 is a specialist boat any more than a D1 (or Vario for that matter) is. I'm a club-sailor first and foremost and I can save my time (never mind just get first over the finish line), on Frensham, against Phantoms and Lasers et al, if I sail appropriately well. On here, we tend primarily to have the opinions of people who, for whatever reason, found it did not suit them. That does not make their opinion the sole truth, any more than mine is. So I am trying to create some balance. I find it performs on the water, provides challenging, but great fun sailing in the process and people think its sexy. No one ever said that about a Laser.
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kneewrecker
Really should get out more
Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 7:36pm |
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Great post Clive, well written and presented.
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iitick
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 09 Sep 13 Location: Tunstead Milton Online Status: Offline Posts: 392 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 7:31pm |
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What people who have experienced 100 are saying on here is that it is a specialist boat, not a boat for a Wednesday night twixt work and pub. The one at our club is sailed for fun by a guy who was a quick Laser sailor but I doubt if he is interested in being beaten round the cans by a C2 Byte in a shifty wind. I like the D Zero because...... I like the look of of the D Zero....and I can imagine it thrashing round with Supernova, Lightning, Byte et al. It looks like a modern club boat to me not a specialised conversation piece ripe for intellectual analysis.
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fab100
Really should get out more
Joined: 15 Mar 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1005 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 6:36pm |
I've been reading all this with interest today, so let me give my view Mike, as my forum-name still feels appropriate to me. Firstly, it's a shame we've ended up with two designs in the D1 and RS100 when, realistically, there is probably only room for one. Secondly, let's remember the Vario preceded both D1 and RS100. From the few times I sailed a Vario, it felt more of a grunt than the Laser upwind which, given the kite, seemed like 80% of the time. A lack of beam felt like the problem apart from anything else. It was hardly a feather-weight either, from what I recall. Both new designs addressed this in their own way. Next: I agree that the two-rigs choice on the 100 has not been a successful effort at weight-equalisation. In an average breeze, there is no question the 10.2 simply sails away from the 8.4. The 10.2 is a nicer sail combo with the mast too, but is a bit of a beast. In the clubs where fleets did appear (Parkstone, Gurnard) buyers made the sensible decision to all opt for the same rig, choosing the 8.4. The only exception to this was HISC where 10.2s predominated. I can't comment on the fairness of the rack-moving system on the D1, but Nick Craig tells me that being on the outer setting is worth 9kg (if i recall) of righting moment, so he makes sure he is always just under the cap. Form your own judgement on that as a system; I wonder if, had the D1 had been the boat to take (off like the 100 did) 4 years ago, whether the tittle-tattle here would be about that rather than 100 sail-sizes. Last summer there was some chit-chat about amending those sail sizes for the 100; the uncertainty put off some people with 10.2s like Alex, which was a massive shame. This whole affair was a bit of an own goal, exacerbated by some major stirring from certain members of this parish. But on the continent, 10.2s are leading sales still, from what I understand. Next: perhaps I am exceptional (who knew) but i fundamentally, 100% disagree with James about these boats not suiting restricted water and cat's cradle courses. I did an autumn series of ww-lw courses at HISC and got bored out of my mind. I think it's blinking' good fun trying to sail it where I do - I choose it over my Laser and RS200 virtually every time. Nick happily sails his D1 at Frensham too on Wednesdays and at club events and we've had some great races. And yes, you can save your time against the spreadsheet; I think my results are not dissimilar to if I sailed the 200, or a Phantom or a Laser. I've not sailed a D1, but comparing notes with Nick, he tells me nose-diving is a big issue he faces even with the kite up. The 100 is only nosey when one-sailing (queue debate, but it's a fact). At POSH last year it was windy and the 100s seemed to be being sailed far harder than the D1s (Nick was not there mind). Dave Gorringe, who moved from a 100 to a D1 tells me the rig is far more tweaky/tweakable) in the D1 - this can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how good you are at that aspect of sailing! Null says the 100 is hard to get back into. In all my myriad capsizes, at events and club-sailing, I've only had the getting-back-in issue once in four years. Why do people keep jumping in the water? It's disrespectful to a billion years of evolution. What is absolutely essential is a kite-halyard trip line led to the wings - this should be a standard factory-fitting to my mind. So what is good? If you can hack it, these boats are darn good fun; always challenging to sail, providing really tight racing at times. Upwind is hard work in a breeze, but dur! It's a hiking boat, the same complaints will appear about the D-Zero once things are established. A Phantom is hard work upwind, then trashes you knees on a run. Nothing is perfect. Build quality on both seems pretty darn good and they are pretty-well sorted straight out of the box (although bimbling addicts like me can always find a few tweaks to make; please at least provide a Harken blocks option over the Seldens, RS) FWIW, I've had lots of people come and tell me how sexy the 100 looks; not sure anyone has ever said that about a D1 once the wings have been attached. Packing up the 100 for towing and vice versa seems easier than the D1. There is a big contrast in foils - the D1 with cassette/daggers and the 100 with lifting - horses for courses - but changing slot gaskets is certainly not my favourite thing. What they are not is easy or forgiving, but you get out what you put in. Would I go back to a una-rig full time? No way; broad downwind just seems so uninteresting now in a Phantom or Laser for example. But IMHO these boats are always going to be a niche not mass market - the trade-offs between performance, handling-challenge and accessibility to all are simply unavoidable. Clive |
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