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The RS100 Owners Thread |
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kneewrecker 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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 Topic: The RS100 Owners ThreadPosted: 03 Jun 14 at 5:12pm |
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RS100:
- smaller kite - forget the complex mast and shrouds, go simpler (MPS style) - one mainsail size and uniform class development - daggerboard D-One: - the new deck moulding from the word go - a better exchange rate at launch - anything but 1980's royal blue in the first photos - better marketing / editorial on the rig and why it works |
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Null
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 May 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 745 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 5:12pm |
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Mike, in fairness there is know one on this forum that has sailed both for an extensive amount of time to be able to site the pitfalls and benefits of both boats (it never stopped us before i hear you say)
So to my mind, i think part of the 100 downfall is the boat. It is notoriously hard to get back in after a capsize, its hardwork uphill and secondly how it was marketed (mentioned in my post above) To make it a better boat it needed more beam and probably a less complicated rig (proper shoruds) The D1 is not perfect (no boat is) but it has the raw basics, beam, effective rig and more stability. To my mind if both boats were being designed again you would almost want a hybrid of both!! Maybe even a blaze with a kite, but you never saw the market. As for accepting the concept for a moment...I hazard a guess the two fleets have sold more than most classes over the last 3 years even standing on their own. In my opinion the D1 will continue to grow, much like the Musto has. It really starting to find its feet with handfuls of people moving from established classes like the Phantom. Give it another 3 years and it will be a consistentcontender for the 40+ Nationals attendance tables IMHO
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kneewrecker
Really should get out more
Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 5:16pm |
No, not on here, and I'm guessing not willing to comment publicly either. But it's telling that those whom have, have universally picked one over the other, even at the expense of 'other loyalties' which should probably sway them in the other direction.
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blaze720
Really should get out more
Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 6:35pm |
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We are still getting very strongly 'encouraged' by some towards an asymetric singlehander project ourselves. I'm not sure we really want to go that direction commercially yet and I'd need to be very convinced in the shorter term. But 'FIRE' (8.8m) is now confirmed as a Blaze based sub-class just like Halo (11.5m) and is probably the better for it commercially as existing hulls can also be used - the low cost entry route so many wanted is confirmed.
This leaves our 'uber-lightweight' carbon Blaze hull 'available'. It would be a terrible waste just to load it with lead now as a Blaze demo boat ... when we could explore what a fully developed asymetric version really could be like. Hence the questions .... Anyway we will be using it as the basis for a bit of a 'special'. There is absolutely no promises it will ever go beyond a 'project' - the market seems littered enough with casualties and heavy discounting - we must be potty really but experiments are rarely 'time wasted. However this hull will be an exceptional platform for testing everything and as usual we will 'borrow' any good ideas or concepts we can find wherever they are and all without a single trace of any shame ! So who wants what ? Mike L. PS - I'll leave GRF perhaps to introduce a seperate thread in due course ... he knows enough already ! |
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fab100
Really should get out more
Joined: 15 Mar 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1005 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 6:36pm |
I've been reading all this with interest today, so let me give my view Mike, as my forum-name still feels appropriate to me. Firstly, it's a shame we've ended up with two designs in the D1 and RS100 when, realistically, there is probably only room for one. Secondly, let's remember the Vario preceded both D1 and RS100. From the few times I sailed a Vario, it felt more of a grunt than the Laser upwind which, given the kite, seemed like 80% of the time. A lack of beam felt like the problem apart from anything else. It was hardly a feather-weight either, from what I recall. Both new designs addressed this in their own way. Next: I agree that the two-rigs choice on the 100 has not been a successful effort at weight-equalisation. In an average breeze, there is no question the 10.2 simply sails away from the 8.4. The 10.2 is a nicer sail combo with the mast too, but is a bit of a beast. In the clubs where fleets did appear (Parkstone, Gurnard) buyers made the sensible decision to all opt for the same rig, choosing the 8.4. The only exception to this was HISC where 10.2s predominated. I can't comment on the fairness of the rack-moving system on the D1, but Nick Craig tells me that being on the outer setting is worth 9kg (if i recall) of righting moment, so he makes sure he is always just under the cap. Form your own judgement on that as a system; I wonder if, had the D1 had been the boat to take (off like the 100 did) 4 years ago, whether the tittle-tattle here would be about that rather than 100 sail-sizes. Last summer there was some chit-chat about amending those sail sizes for the 100; the uncertainty put off some people with 10.2s like Alex, which was a massive shame. This whole affair was a bit of an own goal, exacerbated by some major stirring from certain members of this parish. But on the continent, 10.2s are leading sales still, from what I understand. Next: perhaps I am exceptional (who knew) but i fundamentally, 100% disagree with James about these boats not suiting restricted water and cat's cradle courses. I did an autumn series of ww-lw courses at HISC and got bored out of my mind. I think it's blinking' good fun trying to sail it where I do - I choose it over my Laser and RS200 virtually every time. Nick happily sails his D1 at Frensham too on Wednesdays and at club events and we've had some great races. And yes, you can save your time against the spreadsheet; I think my results are not dissimilar to if I sailed the 200, or a Phantom or a Laser. I've not sailed a D1, but comparing notes with Nick, he tells me nose-diving is a big issue he faces even with the kite up. The 100 is only nosey when one-sailing (queue debate, but it's a fact). At POSH last year it was windy and the 100s seemed to be being sailed far harder than the D1s (Nick was not there mind). Dave Gorringe, who moved from a 100 to a D1 tells me the rig is far more tweaky/tweakable) in the D1 - this can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how good you are at that aspect of sailing! Null says the 100 is hard to get back into. In all my myriad capsizes, at events and club-sailing, I've only had the getting-back-in issue once in four years. Why do people keep jumping in the water? It's disrespectful to a billion years of evolution. What is absolutely essential is a kite-halyard trip line led to the wings - this should be a standard factory-fitting to my mind. So what is good? If you can hack it, these boats are darn good fun; always challenging to sail, providing really tight racing at times. Upwind is hard work in a breeze, but dur! It's a hiking boat, the same complaints will appear about the D-Zero once things are established. A Phantom is hard work upwind, then trashes you knees on a run. Nothing is perfect. Build quality on both seems pretty darn good and they are pretty-well sorted straight out of the box (although bimbling addicts like me can always find a few tweaks to make; please at least provide a Harken blocks option over the Seldens, RS) FWIW, I've had lots of people come and tell me how sexy the 100 looks; not sure anyone has ever said that about a D1 once the wings have been attached. Packing up the 100 for towing and vice versa seems easier than the D1. There is a big contrast in foils - the D1 with cassette/daggers and the 100 with lifting - horses for courses - but changing slot gaskets is certainly not my favourite thing. What they are not is easy or forgiving, but you get out what you put in. Would I go back to a una-rig full time? No way; broad downwind just seems so uninteresting now in a Phantom or Laser for example. But IMHO these boats are always going to be a niche not mass market - the trade-offs between performance, handling-challenge and accessibility to all are simply unavoidable. Clive |
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iitick
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 09 Sep 13 Location: Tunstead Milton Online Status: Offline Posts: 392 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 7:31pm |
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What people who have experienced 100 are saying on here is that it is a specialist boat, not a boat for a Wednesday night twixt work and pub. The one at our club is sailed for fun by a guy who was a quick Laser sailor but I doubt if he is interested in being beaten round the cans by a C2 Byte in a shifty wind. I like the D Zero because...... I like the look of of the D Zero....and I can imagine it thrashing round with Supernova, Lightning, Byte et al. It looks like a modern club boat to me not a specialised conversation piece ripe for intellectual analysis.
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kneewrecker
Really should get out more
Joined: 09 Apr 14 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1586 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 7:36pm |
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Great post Clive, well written and presented.
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fab100
Really should get out more
Joined: 15 Mar 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1005 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 7:53pm |
Ah, but that's my point - i disagree it that the 100 is a specialist boat any more than a D1 (or Vario for that matter) is. I'm a club-sailor first and foremost and I can save my time (never mind just get first over the finish line), on Frensham, against Phantoms and Lasers et al, if I sail appropriately well. On here, we tend primarily to have the opinions of people who, for whatever reason, found it did not suit them. That does not make their opinion the sole truth, any more than mine is. So I am trying to create some balance. I find it performs on the water, provides challenging, but great fun sailing in the process and people think its sexy. No one ever said that about a Laser.
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Rupert
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Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:11pm |
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Back in the 70's, the Laser was a sexy boat!
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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blaze720
Really should get out more
Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
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Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:17pm |
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Back in the 70's, the Laser was a sexy boat!
... and we thought we were as well....  Mike L. |
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