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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Start Line Collision
    Posted: 15 Apr 14 at 4:21pm
The story as I have it (I wasn't there) was that W was "hovering" right on the line before the start. L approached from astern sailing a higher course, gained an overlap and hailed W to respond as windward boat. W didn't respond and contact ensued.

Whether W did or didn't actually have time to respond is indeed unknown. I'm just wondering if there is any case law that would come up with a ruling when this is the only point disputed.
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laser193713 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 14 at 4:47pm
I understand it that if he didnt respond then he has broken a rule, if he responds but it isn't enough to prevent a collision then L has broken a rule. In very simple terms anyway....

In terms of the language, it is pretty much based on context. If kids under about 15 are around I don't think any language should be used myself. Saying that the stuff you hear down the park coming from 10 year olds is probably worse than anything he said on the water!  LOL
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PeterG View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote PeterG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 14 at 5:08pm
If W was "hovering" on the line then it's quite possible that they had little maneuverability and would have taken time to be able to respond. If that's the case then L was in a better position to be able to avoid a collision than W. 

Peter 
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Time Lord View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 14 at 5:44pm
Have a look at case 13 in the RYA Casebook of Appeal decisions. Seems to cover this situation - L is cleared and W is dsq.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 14 at 11:22pm
Thanks for all the thoughts folks. Jim the rule 69 reference was particularly useful.

Spoke to L tonight. He says W was sat on the line ready to trigger pull. L approached from below and behind sailing a higher course and hailed him to keep clear. L says W could have pulled the trigger or even just sheeted his sail in and kept clear but instead continued to sit where he was. W's boom made contact with L's boat, then W bore away across L's bows to start, with the rather comical result that his transom became entangled with L's bowsprit and extracted it from its stowed position (RS400) resulting in him towing L along 6 feet behind!

Reading between the lines I suspect L's intent all along was to squeeze W over the line, which is a legitimate manoeuvre, if a little match-racey perhaps.

So presuming that L's testimony is something along the lines of the above account, whilst W will no doubt testify that L gave him insufficient room to respond, how would one deal with the ensuing protest? Clear contact, no penalty turns by either party so I guess at least one boat has to be DSQ'd.

Regarding the bad language, it was a fair bit of "effing and jeffing" and aggressive name calling by the helm of W directed at L, which went on for a fair while from the initial contact until after the boats were eventually disentangled. L's crew was a 13 year old girl, and other junior sailors were present, which to me pushes it over the boundaries of acceptability, especially on a start line where the entire fleet was clearly within earshot.
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Time Lord View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 14 at 11:42pm
Ignoring the language (which the club should take up), case 13 of Rya appeals is not dissimilar. W made no attempt to respond and then tried to sail across L's bow so as not to cross the line before the gun. W should be penalised. If the protest committee find differently then L can appeal to RYA.
Merlin Rocket 3609
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ohFFsake View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Apr 14 at 11:48pm
Do you have an online reference to case 13 - I can only find a single line summary.

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 14 at 7:23am
Even if you can't protest the bad language  I'm sure there will be something in the club rulebook about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Time Lord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 14 at 9:11am
I suspect that you are looking at the summary at the beginning of the Casebook. Go to the later pages and you'll find the full appeal.

That is assuming that you are looking at the correct document which you can download from http://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/20132016ISAFCaseBookUpdatedJan2014-%5b16129%5d.pdf.

Also if you look for a posting by Brass in this rules forum, he has listed a number of downloadable rules reference documents.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ohFFsake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 14 at 9:21am
Perfect, thanks :)
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