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Alistair426 View Drop Down
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Posts: 201 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Alistair426 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: R Speculation
    Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 10:00am
Originally posted by laser193713

The best decision I made when buying my 100 was not going for the 10.2 despite being pushed to have one. At 82kgs it was just right with the 8.4. Much heavier and I would have gone with the bigger sail but then I am a lot younger than most of the fleet were. I think some of the 90kg + guys were struggling with the big sail in some fairly moderate winds... I don't think the boat needs all that sail area unless you are on some little drifty puddle in the midlands.

The 8.4s were all over most of the 10.2s at the Nationals last year upwind on the one day there was a sea breeze.
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timeintheboat View Drop Down
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 10:25am
This thread does make me wonder why there are so few 2 sail (jib and main) single handers. 

Not counting the K1 is the canoe the only one?
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 10:27am
The Blaze did play with having a small self tacking jib at 1 point and discovered it made very little difference to the overall performance of the boat.
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tgruitt View Drop Down
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Posts: 2479 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 10:31am
Originally posted by NeilB-Phantom

But not every club has a neat sign on / off process at the club.  We launch from at least 3 different locations round the Sound to race at one club, the RO has to pick up who's "signed on" as one sails past the start box at least 50m distant.  So the rig distinction needs to be clear from that distance if the helm is using more than 1 rig during the series, if this is allowed.  
IF the aero is to have 3  separate classes will it have 3 different sail insignia?


This big 5,7 and 9 on the sail is a bit of a give away...
Needs to sail more...
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 10:48am
Originally posted by timeintheboat

This thread does make me wonder why there are so few 2 sail (jib and main) single handers. 

Not counting the K1 is the canoe the only one?

A una (single sail) rig is more efficient than a sloop upwind (better lift/drag, although thrust/heeling moment is not so different), and certainly downwind when most jibs have excessive camber and twist.  imho it's only there on most boats to give the crew some input.

In the case of the Int Canoe [as I understand it, Jim] I think a jib is retained to make the (narrow, unstable) boat more manageable, although unas have been trialled since development was allowed in recent years.  The other factors with the I.C. are that total sail area is measured, and there is a rig height limit which means you can't take advantage of the lower sideforce of a una rig to increase the sail area over a sloop till you get the same heeling moment.
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Steve411 View Drop Down
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Posts: 705 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Steve411 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 10:52am
Originally posted by laser193713

The best decision I made when buying my 100 was not going for the 10.2 despite being pushed to have one. At 82kgs it was just right with the 8.4. Much heavier and I would have gone with the bigger sail but then I am a lot younger than most of the fleet were. I think some of the 90kg + guys were struggling with the big sail in some fairly moderate winds... I don't think the boat needs all that sail area unless you are on some little drifty puddle in the midlands.

This is interesting. I had assumed that most folk over 80kg would have gone to the big rig (10.2 being almost identical to the 300 big rig (10sq m)) and that 8.4 would have felt underpowered upwind. Guess you have plenty more area downwind though.
Steve B
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 10:58am
The Blaze did play with having a small self tacking jib at 1 point and discovered it made very little difference to the overall performance of the boat.

FYI It was not an official thing at all - but a private bimble !  On the Blaze it looked to offer limited gain for a lot of hassle - still fun to watch in higher wind conditons.   Main benefit seemed to be on some reaching angles but the Blaze is good then anyway...

It might be more useful on some singlehanders specifically designed for one of course - but KISS is the way for us more simple souls.

Mike L.


Edited by blaze720 - 11 Mar 14 at 10:58am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 11:04am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

A una (single sail) rig is more efficient than a sloop upwind (better lift/drag, although thrust/heeling moment is not so different)

Highly contestable statement I think.
Personally I think the main reason Una rigs are so prevalent is so there are not more sheets than hands.
Without the sliding seat a non-self tacking jib on a Canoe would be a right pain in the neck (throwing the plank partially sheets the jib) whilst self tacking jibs have their own disadvantages.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 11:23am
Originally posted by timeintheboat

This thread does make me wonder why there are so few 2 sail (jib and main) single handers. 

Not counting the K1 is the canoe the only one?



There is a long history of boats like Ents, Fireflies, Grads and Mirrors being raced singlehanded with both sails. Many more casual non-racing sailors also use the jib.
It's not hard, but you can be at a disadavantage on the startline.
And of course you will get a PY which tries to account for your lack of weight in F1, so you will suffer in F4, but of course many people are happy sailing mainly on light days.
I guess it's generally not going to work well as a class to take racing seriously as you might be binning too many F5 days?
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 14 at 11:25am
Jibs - yep, terrible things. Glad the AC boats put jibs on so the crew had something to do...
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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