New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Sailing is for posh people
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Sailing is for posh people
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1112131415 41>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sailing is for posh people
    Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by 2547

 Trouble is almost all Starbucks are franchises; .
Your idea about taxing individuals rather than companies sounds very plausible... even if it ultimately means some entrepreneurs would be worse off.        

I suspect most entrepreneurs pay their taxes so would not be impacted.

It is large global corporations that are tax dodging through complexed multi national organisations that shift profit artificially over boarders.

Ultimately it is shareholders and senior management people who are drawing the cash out of the company at some point so hit them with appropriate taxes and get rid of corporation tax.

They may be happy the HQ their company in some dodgy nation for tax but chances are they want to live in some nice western place to tax them at that point ...
Back to Top
sandgrounder View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 01 Apr 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Blimey, thought I'd wandered onto the Daily Mail website then for a while. 
 
More chance of finding a sailing discussion on the Daily Mail website....
 
Back to Top
iGRF View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 07 Mar 11
Location: Hythe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 5:26pm
Woa this has gone a bit sideways hasn't it?

Tax avoidance became legitimate the moment the rule makers began fiddling their expenses.

What that has got to do with Sailing attracting Posh folk which the Dinghy bit certainly doesn't as I think we've proved here given Russco and Yellowelly are the poshest amongst us, except maybe Thunder Road and his PA..
Snow Equipment Deals    New Core Kite website
Back to Top
iitick View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 09 Sep 13
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 5:22pm
Dear, dear, where are we off to now! I am pleased to hear you two gentlemen (I think) talking about being careful of change (I think). Violent change in legislation seldom seems to work. Society always seems organic and staggers along in roughly the right direction with the odd nudge from government.
I regret the unfair existence of the model of class structure we have at present and I object to international forces ruling the World but there is little we can do.

I remember having these discussions while sitting on the docks with my trucker mates, you get fed up reading Jane Austen after a while.
Back to Top
Dougal View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 09
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 556 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 4:59pm
Yep, agreed, but until the rule makers change it we are stuck with this system.  Also, tax changes tend to have a political as well as an economic element to them so common sense doesn't always prevail.

(I also am self employed)


Edited by Dougal - 11 Dec 13 at 5:00pm
What could possibly go wrong?
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Dougal

I don't particularly want to get into the Starbucks tax debate, but as far as I know they have not broken any rules (in the same way Jimmy Carr did nothing illegal), the problem is the rule makers have not kept pace with the changing realities of commerce, in particular with regard to the internet where it can be unclear exactly where a transaction is taking place.

Morally it's wrong, but a tax system has to be based on legislation not a system where people pay what they think they should.  This isn't an ideal world!

+1  ... the referee's a w**ker.... (and probably taking a back hand or two to look the other way)  
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 4:55pm
I agree 100%... but then I would, I've been self employed for 10 years now.  

I don't however see there's any practical solution for taxing a business owner proportionally less than any of their employees simply for having a shareholding.  

If you end up effectively forcing an entire workforce into self-employed status, then you do really have a mess to deal with... just look at CIS in construction, or IR45 essentially to deal with tax avoidance in the computing and consultancy sub contractor market... bloody nightmare.     
Back to Top
Dougal View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 09
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 556 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 4:52pm
I don't particularly want to get into the Starbucks tax debate, but as far as I know they have not broken any rules (in the same way Jimmy Carr did nothing illegal), the problem is the rule makers have not kept pace with the changing realities of commerce, in particular with regard to the internet where it can be unclear exactly where a transaction is taking place.

Morally it's wrong, but a tax system has to be based on legislation not a system where people pay what they think they should.  This isn't an ideal world!
What could possibly go wrong?
Back to Top
Dougal View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 09
Location: England
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 556 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by yellowwelly

Originally posted by 2547

 Trouble is almost all Starbucks are franchises; .

they have a franchise expansion model here.  You grow the business (needing £500k liquid assets- no pun intended), your typical exit plan once the investment matures would be either sell, or re-invest on another location.  If you try the former, they reserve the right to buy (AIUI,  at a  sub-market price).

In the US, where their model is more mature, they are no longer taking on new franchisees except in exceptional circumstances.  They have built the business off the back of entrepreneurs and not afforded them the courtesy of an open exit.  There's quite a bite back against Starbucks in SoCal.... and young professionals have mobilised boycotts of them through social media.

Your idea about taxing individuals rather than companies sounds very plausible... even if it ultimately means some entrepreneurs would be worse off.        

Which would be a problem - it is the entrepreneurs who are the ones with the drive to take  ideas and try and commercialise them.  Most don't think of the money when they set out, it is the desire to get their idea/product/service out there and growing that drives them.  Through that process they grow companies, employ people, generate work for other companies (suppliers etc) and when they have made their fortune they go and spend it in shops (keeping people employed), on boats, and/or investing it in their next crazy idea and the whole cycle starts again.  Anything and everything should be done to encourage entrepreneurs - without them we really would be screwed!
What could possibly go wrong?
Back to Top
yellowwelly View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 13
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 13 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by 2547

 Trouble is almost all Starbucks are franchises; .

they have a franchise expansion model here.  You grow the business (needing £500k liquid assets- no pun intended), your typical exit plan once the investment matures would be either sell, or re-invest on another location.  If you try the former, they reserve the right to buy (AIUI,  at a  sub-market price).

In the US, where their model is more mature, they are no longer taking on new franchisees except in exceptional circumstances.  They have built the business off the back of entrepreneurs and not afforded them the courtesy of an open exit.  There's quite a bite back against Starbucks in SoCal.... and young professionals have mobilised boycotts of them through social media.

Your idea about taxing individuals rather than companies sounds very plausible... even if it ultimately means some entrepreneurs would be worse off.        
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 1112131415 41>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy