Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
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blaze720 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1635 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 03 Nov 13 at 5:46pm |
Eh? What's your problem?
I've not got a problem with any aspect of this debate ... and I still have not got one if GRF wants to try a spinnaker and trapeze on an Icon hull. Why would there be a problem for anyone ? You are no real fan of the standard Icon so maybe this negativity over the 3rd sails and wires on an Icon platform must be expected... but what if he is really is on an interesting track after all the 'puff and stuff' here? It will not be an Icon of course but hell it might be interesting ... I'm sure we will see a few photos and get a few updates and commentary here in the months ahead ... A lightweight NS derived modern boat with full carbon rig ... and in the UK. You might never want one either .... but I really really bet you follow that particular thread too ... ![]() Mike L. (might be time for a lie-down now .... ) |
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scotsfinn ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 17 May 12 Location: Glasgow Online Status: Offline Posts: 284 |
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Grf will at least av a larf and I for one recon it'll be a blistering boat, assuming the mast is ok for all the extra loads ........ Whatever expect some spectacular pics and some even more spectacular BS from our online guru ..... Can't wait
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Largs Sailing Club. D-Zero GBR 57, B14 744
www.blueseaconsultingllp.com |
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iGRF ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Mar 11 Location: Hythe Online Status: Offline Posts: 6499 |
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I want a boat that I can sail on the sea, compete with a Merlin round triangle sausage legs, then use it on a small lake and compete with Miracles, Snipes and the odd Scorpion. I dont want old dross, I want a wash through hull, so when we capsize it doesnt take ten minutes to get back up to speed because were full of water. I ve actually bothered to find out how those silly old symmettric kites work so i can design a way around them, or adopt a twin kite approach maybe using dangle poles, maybe something along the lines of the 200 system they canned.
Right now, there is no boat that meets my needs. I like the icon hull, but i also enjoy what a kite does downwind. There are too many boats all catering for bits of what folk want, my idea if I were putting a product out there, which I'm not, would be to make it modular. Want a hiker? buy (a)pack, want a trap boat ? Buy pack (b), want a hiker with a sym kite? Pack © and so on, that hull could do any requirement I reckon hell it could even be a single hander. There again I could be wrong, its not beyond the wit of man to work out a PY, it's not going to be rocket ship fast, it needs a small enough kite to go round the cans on a lake and it doesnt have to have a trap, but it could and then there would have to be another PY. Another reason we need a fact and measured PY system rather than loads of old buffers vested in keeping things in establshed classes and submiting half arse returns that nobody really bothers with unless, let me guess, they have vested interest or the green eye against a successful class eroding theirs. Whatever, I'm not going to let that stand in the way of progress. If what I end up with is desirable, then nothing to stop it going into production and yep another boat maybe nobody wants unless RS or Ovington make it, but then that's their choice. As always with anything I do, it wont be a big secret, and is open to constructive criticism, it just wont be called Icon. Psycon, Tricon, Bicon, Frankencon, whatever, lets just see what we can come up with shall we? There's nothing that dramatic going on here, except freedom of choice, now nobody can disagree with that can they? Edited by iGRF - 03 Nov 13 at 7:21pm |
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craiggo ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1810 |
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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Graeme call your one the CONstipated... Same old sh*t, stuck up the same old arse, creating the same old wind... ;-)
Edited by yellowwelly - 03 Nov 13 at 7:47pm |
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scotsfinn ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 17 May 12 Location: Glasgow Online Status: Offline Posts: 284 |
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Awe cumon YW let Grf get on with his new project, it's built a sound foundation and will reach speeds that will produce brown trousers above 20kts ....... Constipation will not be a problem..... May the name should be iGROAN
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Largs Sailing Club. D-Zero GBR 57, B14 744
www.blueseaconsultingllp.com |
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Slippery Jim ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 Nov 09 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 586 |
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I´m still sailing mine in Bavaria! GREAT BOAT, super handling and very slippery when wet (hence the name of mine). Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion...
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Pass the skiff, man!
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Slippery Jim ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 Nov 09 Location: Germany Online Status: Offline Posts: 586 |
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The only thing you have to watch on the 59er is that getting out on the trapeze can be tricky and a couple of metal bars can help in order to kick off for that. hen sheet loads are very low and you reach about 25 knots in a straight line in a force 4, (VMG approx 20 knots) so not sluggish by any means. GRF used to sl*g us off something bad, probably because of that 505 clone he loved to try to sail. Haven´t heard of any Altos doing much recently though... ![]() I´ll get my coat..
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Pass the skiff, man!
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Jeepers ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 26 May 11 Location: Hamphire Online Status: Offline Posts: 147 |
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... but what if he is really is on an interesting track after all the 'puff and stuff' here?
I've kept an interest in the Icon as a simple, straightforward boat with great performance on restricted or open stretches of water. But seeing the turn of this debate, if I were a potential owner, the builder/marketer is now taking an interest in people developing trapezes and kites on what was professed to be a brilliant enough platform anyway. Sounds like anarchy to me. |
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yellowwelly ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 May 13 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2003 |
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interesting point Jeepers... maybe Mike's calling bluff here though, after all he practically offered Graeme a kite and pole from the back of the yard for his Blaze, but Graeme never actually took him up on it ;-)
But I can see where you're coming from if you're a lurker here reading this as a result of a bit of icon google research. Also nice to see Slippery back again (hi Jim!) the 59er development is a good example of how not to do it- absolutely nothing wrong with the boat, AIUI, Julian B was never critical of the boat, just that it was slightly over-engineered for the target market, e.g. epoxy throughout, pushing the price up somewhat. (I think he posted on SA along the lines of 'Dad just wanted the perfect boat for everybody'). In the UK, some of us questioning the sanity of Ovingtons pushing the trap kit at the time. It seemed to be trying to compete with too many things (and just maybe differentiate their conflict of interest with the B14)- the Osprey guys were not so impressed iirc. All it did do was alienate the two handed hiking market- who may have been convinced with buying into the 'fastest and best' (possibly aimed at two blokes given the large kite) who were getting a bit bored with their 400 or wanted to ditch the wires on their 14 / 800 or former 5000 / Boss sailors looking for the next new thing.... either way, adding trap kits changed the dynamic of the marketing message and class lost its positioning imho. Will GRF send the Icon in the same direction? ![]() Edited by yellowwelly - 03 Nov 13 at 10:16pm |
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