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your responsibilities as a sailor

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Sheetpuller View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 May 13 at 11:48am
Responsibilities of membership - hmmm...do I hear the little 'whoosh' of the vacuum seal as a new can of worms is opened?
 
Clubs don't run themselves and never have.  Not just sailing clubs, any and all clubs in the sports or 'hobbyist' sector.  It takes active effort from members for anything to happen at all, and this seems to work on what I call 'the 2/98 principle'; that is, 2% of the members do all the work and the other 98% come along for the ride.  Which is fine, it probably only needs 2% or so to fill the various committee positions and maybe only 2% of the population have this funny gene that says it's more fun to be making things happen than just turning up.  The downside is that it's always the same 2%.
 
All that is the way the world is and has been since day 1.  What has changed (and in my humble opinion not for the better) is the concept of membership.  Back when the world was young and my legs came in short pants instead of my breath, membership meant just that - you were a part of something, your club was an entity you belonged to and you took pleasure in the sense of being included.  Somewhere along the way, what we still refer to as 'membership' has morphed into 'customer', even though in the real world 'customers' are people who consume professional services in exchange for money - and most clubs are still amateur organisations which rely on the active participation of that 2% for anything to happen.  That's where the conflict arises.  'Membership' carries a notion of participation; it's a two-way relationship.  'Customer' doesn't; it's just a straightforward commercial transaction, and we all know the big clubs which have evolved into mini-plc's as a result.
 
I must be one of those wierdos in the 2%.  I've been a member of a few clubs in my lifetime and always found that it was much more satisying to be involved, and that has ranged from being rota'd to clean the clubhouse to (eventually) Commodore.  But I've always found that those clubs where 'membership' still implys a two-way relationship have been much more pleasant social environments as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Sheetpuller

clubs where 'membership' still implys a two-way relationship have been much more pleasant social environments as well.

I suspect that's more or less inevitable (in both directions). When you think about it you're always going to get on better with people who you've worked together with pulling brambles out of the trailer park or whatever. Its just another facet of the old cliche of "put them through hell together and they'll bond".
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey



Finally, I've noted that amongst dinghy sailors we all seem very keen to promote the sport to outsiders- bringing in fresh blood, boost membership numbers.  However we stick our heads in the sand when comes to the participation figures showing sharp declines, buoyed up maybe with our own class or club minor victories shielding us from the big picture.  




I took up sailing as an adult. Initially I was full of obvious enthusiasm, talking about it at length with non sailing friends. It soon became clear that the cool response was not just about a lack of interest or knowledge on the sport, it was more about other folks pre conceived ideas of what sailing is all about....Sailing has a negative image for most of the non sailing public. Nothing new there.

 As a person not raised on sailing most of my life experience comes from outside the sport. This didn't cause much a problem initially because I was focused on learning the art, reading books and absorbing info with great relish, it was all new. I did have some niggling discomforts with certain aspects though, aspects that had disappeared (significantly) from the wider environment from which I had come.  The slightly militaristic hierarchy within sailing clubs, the raising of flags when certain people arrived at the club, the strange titles,  it all seemed a bit bloody weird in a slightly masonic, ritualistic, elitist kind of way.... it all seemed a little bit kinky to be honest.

Other aspects like attitudes towards women and to a lesser extent kids. My partner who is a professional with a high powered job (as with many women nowadays) found the 50s style sexism difficult to tolerate. Puerile, misogynistic boat names, bad jokes about dumb blondes etc.

(I guess this last issue is prevalent in most specialist circles)
Sailors tend to be judged by their ability to sail with little thought given to other personality traits, thus an otherwise incompetent arse can be acclaimed as a great person because they've won a nationals. An instructor would be considered a great instructor if they are good sailors, never mind that they have the personality of a rabid hyena (I read the slow learner thread with interest)......Good sailors that eat children are worth speaking to, newbies with glowing charm are not.


......anyway, my days of promoting the sport to a wider audience are at an end. So much of the baggage that goes with being a member of a SC is not, in my opinion, worth promoting. Don't get me wrong, I have met some lovely people and hopefully made some good friends, it's just that the general attitudes within sailing are at odds with the rest of the world. 

I enjoy sailing so I shall persist + my influence will only be effective if I stay within the sport.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 12:59pm
Good Post Transient, very interesting, all true and half the time we don't even realise it, the world has moved on around us. I don't count myself as 'just' a sailor it's one of many water based sports I'm into, but a lot of what you say is true of many clubs, not ours I might add, no dumb blondes in Hythe, well not female, young Dumberer (of Dumb & Dumberer fame)is blonde.

You're also so right about who is granted an opinion and who aint, complete t**sers who through sheer single mindedness and tow (time on the water)yet with the personality of a sick note get to hold court whilst other intelligent charismatic types can get ignored, stupid really, but it is true.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 1:49pm
some great posts guys...  Thumbs Up  A lot of food for thought!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by transient

 
I took up sailing as an adult. Initially I was full of obvious enthusiasm, talking about it at length with non sailing friends. It soon became clear that the cool response was not just about a lack of interest or knowledge on the sport, it was more about other folks pre conceived ideas of what sailing is all about....Sailing has a negative image for most of the non sailing public. Nothing new there.

 As a person not raised on sailing most of my life experience comes from outside the sport. This didn't cause much a problem initially because I was focused on learning the art, reading books and absorbing info with great relish, it was all new. I did have some niggling discomforts with certain aspects though, aspects that had disappeared (significantly) from the wider environment from which I had come.  The slightly militaristic hierarchy within sailing clubs, the raising of flags when certain people arrived at the club, the strange titles,  it all seemed a bit bloody weird in a slightly masonic, ritualistic, elitist kind of way.... it all seemed a little bit kinky to be honest.

Other aspects like attitudes towards women and to a lesser extent kids. My partner who is a professional with a high powered job (as with many women nowadays) found the 50s style sexism difficult to tolerate. Puerile, misogynistic boat names, bad jokes about dumb blondes etc.

(I guess this last issue is prevalent in most specialist circles)
Sailors tend to be judged by their ability to sail with little thought given to other personality traits, thus an otherwise incompetent arse can be acclaimed as a great person because they've won a nationals. An instructor would be considered a great instructor if they are good sailors, never mind that they have the personality of a rabid hyena (I read the slow learner thread with interest)......Good sailors that eat children are worth speaking to, newbies with glowing charm are not.


......anyway, my days of promoting the sport to a wider audience are at an end. So much of the baggage that goes with being a member of a SC is not, in my opinion, worth promoting. Don't get me wrong, I have met some lovely people and hopefully made some good friends, it's just that the general attitudes within sailing are at odds with the rest of the world. 

I enjoy sailing so I shall persist + my influence will only be effective if I stay within the sport.  

Interesting post ... in many ways it reflects that sailing clubs can be just stuck with 70s attitudes.

Most clubs have a fair bit of tradition and history which is good but when that also serves to  reserve backwards ways then that is not good.

Ultimately though if you want to change these things then you have to get involved in club life and take up some leadership roles in the organisation to change the culture of the club ... which goes back to the OPs point, if you just do your own thing you cant expect the environment to adapt to you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 2:23pm
I do wonder why clubs stick with the navy terminology. When I was one, I could tell someone that I was "Rear Commodore sailing" and they would have no clue what I meant... However, "Sailing Manager" sounds horribly corporate. Is there a better way? And should a commodore be a chairman? Surely the alternatives are taking words from a business model which is as irrelevant as the navy is to most clubs?
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 2:57pm
These days, it's often 'chair' not 'chairman'.
Which ties in with abbrieviating Commodore to 'Commode'.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

These days, it's often 'chair' not 'chairman'.
Which ties in with abbrieviating Commodore to 'Commode'.


I'm not sure I'd want to be a Rear Commode to be honest :-(
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 5:14pm
Originally posted by tgruitt

Originally posted by RS400atC

These days, it's often 'chair' not 'chairman'.
Which ties in with abbrieviating Commodore to 'Commode'.


I'm not sure I'd want to be a Rear Commode to be honest :-(

nor a 'vice' commode either.... they don't flush so good.


Edited by pondmonkey - 17 May 13 at 5:14pm
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