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    Posted: 17 May 13 at 2:04pm
Ruscoe, yes , thats the quote and I read it back, slight difference in what I tried to type and how it may read . Its subtle, but what I meant was not that it favours weight in terms of results or performance, but that it can carry more weight which was down to its heritage. The 100 had its sail area increased so it could drive more weight in the boat. My point being that the 100 needed to be hiked very hard and perhaps harder than people liked. 

The D-one carries the weight and carries the power, but depowers very well and has two rack settings, so seems to suit a wider range competitively. 

I am not sure where pricing is on either boat now, but at the time there was a real difference, but again the d-one is more of a hand built boat, carbon, racks, traveller etc so bound to be more expensive to make. I am not saying either is right or wrong, you pays your money........

If I were to be looking to buy one of these tomorrow it would probably be a d-one, but mostly because we have more d-ones at the club.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by Ruscoe

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Ruscoe

How does the D-one favour a bit of weight??  Charlie Chandler is 75kg, Giles Chipperfield must be near enough the same weight.  Former Gold cup winner Augustin Zabaloa in about 70kg.  Nick craig is hardly a fat boy.  My weight floats between 85-89kg.  Tim G is about 90kg but has been heavier, We have some sailors over 100kg.  I would hardly say it was designed any particular weight range!  We do all this with 1 main sail size and two wing positions.  (Albeit there is a 7.4m2 rig which has been mainly used by female sailors) Even in this weekends conditions Charlie and I were swapping places, he won the event but the results don't paint the whole picture however he is a better sailor so i guess the end result does ther talking.

The D1 is looking a really nice bit of kit ... if you must weight equalise I think adjusting wings seems to work better than different sails.

Wing adjustment has worked well for a number of classes, have any classes be successful doing weight equalisation with sails sizes?
Thanks for the kind words, IMNSHO equalisation of any form has its positives and negatives.  It seems to work well for us currently.  For sure the D1 is not for everyone, but then again despite some early marketing hype i think its fairly sensible to say it was never meant to be.  One thing for sure is its a fine ship usuable in a broad range of weight ranges and conditions.  But then i would say that wouldnt I!!!!


Are there any examples of a class where sail size has been changed to offer weight equalisation?

The only one I can think of that tried it was the RS300 and that never really took off ...
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by Ruscoe

How does the D-one favour a bit of weight??  Charlie Chandler is 75kg, Giles Chipperfield must be near enough the same weight.  Former Gold cup winner Augustin Zabaloa in about 70kg.  Nick craig is hardly a fat boy.  My weight floats between 85-89kg.  Tim G is about 90kg but has been heavier, We have some sailors over 100kg.  I would hardly say it was designed any particular weight range!  We do all this with 1 main sail size and two wing positions.  (Albeit there is a 7.4m2 rig which has been mainly used by female sailors) Even in this weekends conditions Charlie and I were swapping places, he won the event but the results don't paint the whole picture however he is a better sailor so i guess the end result does ther talking.

The D1 is looking a really nice bit of kit ... if you must weight equalise I think adjusting wings seems to work better than different sails.

Wing adjustment has worked well for a number of classes, have any classes be successful doing weight equalisation with sails sizes?
Thanks for the kind words, IMNSHO equalisation of any form has its positives and negatives.  It seems to work well for us currently.  For sure the D1 is not for everyone, but then again despite some early marketing hype i think its fairly sensible to say it was never meant to be.  One thing for sure is its a fine ship usuable in a broad range of weight ranges and conditions.  But then i would say that wouldnt I!!!!

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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 1:35pm
Simon you said exactly that 'Its no surprise if favours a bit of weight'  so what else am i meant to draw from that statement.  I'm not going to get drawn in to any kind of battle over price.  We don't need to, very different products.  However if you now need to buy both rigs with a 100 and now possibly 3, there is not a great deal of difference in price.  Especially given our full carbon construction etc.  There are other key factors to consider around build quality and longevity of product vs. long term return on your investment.  But i'm not interested in getting into a pissing contest with the 100's again.  I just hope they can get a happy resolution for their class members.  If indeed this is a problem at all.....

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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by Ruscoe

How does the D-one favour a bit of weight??  Charlie Chandler is 75kg, Giles Chipperfield must be near enough the same weight.  Former Gold cup winner Augustin Zabaloa in about 70kg.  Nick craig is hardly a fat boy.  My weight floats between 85-89kg.  Tim G is about 90kg but has been heavier, We have some sailors over 100kg.  I would hardly say it was designed any particular weight range!  We do all this with 1 main sail size and two wing positions.  (Albeit there is a 7.4m2 rig which has been mainly used by female sailors) Even in this weekends conditions Charlie and I were swapping places, he won the event but the results don't paint the whole picture however he is a better sailor so i guess the end result does ther talking.

The D1 is looking a really nice bit of kit ... if you must weight equalise I think adjusting wings seems to work better than different sails.

Wing adjustment has worked well for a number of classes, have any classes be successful doing weight equalisation with sails sizes?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 1:20pm
I never said the d-one favoured any weight, I just inferred that the design came from a finn sailor, who may not be a spring chicken or the lightest. Giles is at my club and so are sailors with more weight. I think the d-one can suit a wide range, but when sailed back to back with a 100, the the d-one is a physically bigger boat, so can carry weight better without just adding more canvas. 

The d-one is bigger, has a bigger battened sail, but depowers more easily for reasons I don't absolutely know, but think are probably a combination of sail shape, unstayed rig and most importantly the traveller. 

The 10.2 on the 100 may be over canvassed because it has much less leverage than the d-one and I suspect a universal sail of about 9m was probably about right. I have sailed both boats, think they are both great, but lets remember there is also a not insubstantial price difference. Would the 100 have benefitted from a track - possibly, but it increases complexity and cost which makes it less accessible. 

Just because the 100 is a smod doesnt however mean that it shouldn't evolve and if after several years there is a class wish to make a change then a smart manufacturer will help with this provided it isn't just jumping on each latest craze to allow it to flog a few more boats short term. 

Take the blaze as an example - the original topper set up was almost unsailable in a breeze and stayed that way until the CA courtesy or one ML stepped in and organised a smaller, semi battened sail that transformed the boat. RS have changed the decks on the 800 and the (Laser) 2000, changed sail shapes and materials on the 400 etc - thats just being smart and helping the class survive, particularly in a situation like this where there is a natural movement and a lot has been learnt about the boat over the past few years.
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by SimonW99

How do you think this forum was ' exploited' .? 

Ok ... emotive word ... very heavily used ...

When a subject it widely discussed on a forum any time there is new news it is likely to receive the same attention. That is the way internet forums work, they are organic ...
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Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 12:55pm
How does the D-one favour a bit of weight??  Charlie Chandler is 75kg, Giles Chipperfield must be near enough the same weight.  Former Gold cup winner Augustin Zabaloa in about 70kg.  Nick craig is hardly a fat boy.  My weight floats between 85-89kg.  Tim G is about 90kg but has been heavier, We have some sailors over 100kg.  I would hardly say it was designed any particular weight range!  We do all this with 1 main sail size and two wing positions.  (Albeit there is a 7.4m2 rig which has been mainly used by female sailors) Even in this weekends conditions Charlie and I were swapping places, he won the event but the results don't paint the whole picture however he is a better sailor so i guess the end result does ther talking.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 12:48pm
How do you think this forum was ' exploited' .? 

It is an open forum and at the development point of the 100, the forum became a receptacle for a lot of chat on the subject, but don't see how anyone was 'exploited' as no one was forced to join in in any way. From memory there were less than half a dozen posts from Nick at RS and only when people asked direct questions. I have no doubt that they would have monitored what was said, but the boat was not designed by the forum nor the forum exploited. What was different in that process was the open invitation from RS for people to try the prototype, which is in principle a good thing, provided that a few people's comments are not taken as representing all sailors. 

I also don't think it was designed to be a fat boys boat, but designed for a wide weight range, albeit the RS design team are perhaps over 75kg Embarrassed

There is no doubt that in the right conditions it can work well for a wide range, but the 10.2 is hard work in a breeze and perhaps us porkers with dodgy knees like an easier life!!! 

The d-0ne was designed from the start to fit Luca's wishes, so no surprise that it favours a bit of weight and has large ( leather) armchairs on each side LOL
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 13 at 12:29pm
Originally posted by fab100

Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by fab100

 

This is an RS100 Owners Thread so it's interesting that the nonsense comes from non-100 owners. 



If you don't want any public comment then take this to the rs100 owners private website ... It is you who is bringing this rule change here for public discussion. 


It was James the Pondmonkey who brought it here (on page 179). Not a 100 owner, but an ex-owner

Well as an ex-owner I think he is entitled to an opinion, and perhaps he'd buy another on one day ...

To get the hump about the general unwashed discussing your class here is a bit rich considering it was this very forum that was heavily "exploited" as part of the hype/launch of the boat. 

Now it is unravelling you have to take the ups with the downs  Wink


Edited by 2547 - 17 May 13 at 12:30pm
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