New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Advertising via sail numbers? 55
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 5758596061 67>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
pondmonkey View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
    Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by Steve Cockerill

Sadly, I think that the mere fact that we are talking about this has already earned the company the marketing that they were seeking. 


publicity... maybe, positive marketing... I fear not.

I personally will think twice about buying anything from sailboats.co.uk/speed or purple again, and that's not because of the initial 55 question, nor the fact that the sails weren't measured for a handicap charity pursuit race.

Some things that have been uncovered just don't add up and seem harsh to say the least.  I'm lucky to sail a class which doesn't restrict where I can buy my spares and gear, so I will exercise that consumer right and buy from other chandleries from now on.

Hopefully Richard Estaugh's historic customers know where to buy their sails if they want to honour his legacy, and continue to buy directly from the sailmakers themselves, rather than a third party with a margin on top... on that note, here's a photo of me sailing my really nice girly pink solo:







Edited by pondmonkey - 18 Feb 13 at 3:42pm
Back to Top
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by gordon1277

Hi
Sorry i have sailed for months without my sails being measured because i did not go to an open where a measurer was present and i was not going to the nationals. Whilst some people seem to think this is awful i am sure the vast majority of club sailors would be in this situation.
I wonder if you checked how many people had new sails at the event had them measured before hand?
I dont wish to get into the legalities of the tape drive as FB int seem to have confused themselves.

If you were a championship winning standard sailor using sails which were debatable in their legality and were looking to win a prestigious winter event I think you need to be by the book.

At club level I think there is perhaps more slack ...
Back to Top
Ian29937 View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 25 May 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 4:06pm
Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by gordon1277

Hi
Sorry i have sailed for months without my sails being measured because i did not go to an open where a measurer was present and i was not going to the nationals. Whilst some people seem to think this is awful i am sure the vast majority of club sailors would be in this situation.
I wonder if you checked how many people had new sails at the event had them measured before hand?
I dont wish to get into the legalities of the tape drive as FB int seem to have confused themselves.

If you were a championship winning standard sailor using sails which were debatable in their legality and were looking to win a prestigious winter event I think you need to be by the book.

At club level I think there is perhaps more slack ...
 
Maybe more slack, but this is one of those time consuming processes which encouraged me to move to a SMOD from the Enterprise.  The requirement is pretty clear and I well remember travelling the 50 odd miles to our nearest measurer to be compliant.  It's no point waiting until a sail is 6 months old before finding it's out of class, "they stretch with use you know..."
 
Ian
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 4:23pm
To ease the issues of sail measurement ISAF and the RYA ae encouraging classes to move towards what's called "In-house certification" where your sails are measured before they leave the manufacturer. Basically it means that someone at the sailmakers gets trained as an ISAF measurer and is approved to measure sails, plus there's an audit traile setup for each sail. More here. Interestingly Banks do have IHC certfied measurers, but the Fireball is not a participating class. See http://www.rya.org.uk/racing/Pages/IHC.aspx
Back to Top
2547 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by JimC

To ease the issues of sail measurement ISAF and the RYA ae encouraging classes to move towards what's called "In-house certification" where your sails are measured before they leave the manufacturer. Basically it means that someone at the sailmakers gets trained as an ISAF measurer and is approved to measure sails, plus there's an audit traile setup for each sail. More here. Interestingly Banks do have IHC certfied measurers, but the Fireball is not a participating class. See http://www.rya.org.uk/racing/Pages/IHC.aspx

That is certainly progress but not relevant in this case as the Fireball class are not participating as you correctly point out.
Back to Top
maxibuddah View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 06 Mar 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 4:33pm
Certainly would make things easier Jim. However could still suffer from the interpretation of the class riles. Classes would need to ensure that the rules were clarified 100% prior to bit happening. In the phantoms there was a lot of interpretation of a cetain part of the rules, so as a class we produced (or rather I did for them) a document showing how a phantom sail was to be measured. That way everyone, measurers and makers were working from the same set of instructions. Only been one instance that I am aware of where the sail didn't measure since then. Perhaps other classes should follow suit to cut out the ambiguity that seems to exist in a lot of them
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
Back to Top
Mark Jardine View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Mar 04
Location: Milford-on-Sea, United King
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 4:36pm

To clarify another point made on here, the Speed Sails brand and IP (such as sail designs) are owned by Tony and Anthony Lincoln at sailboats.co.uk. They are looking to build the brand again, starting with the sailboats.co.uk Race Team using the designs, and developments of the designs, by the great Richard Estaugh. If you have any questions on or anything else to do with the Speed Sails brand you can contact Tony at sailboats.co.uk on 01604 678431 or through the form on www.sailboats.co.uk/contact.aspx
Back to Top
SoggyBadger View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Oct 10
Location: The Wild Wood
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

Perhaps other classes should follow suit to cut out the ambiguity that seems to exist in a lot of them


That's what standardising on ERS is supposed to do. The problem is though that people are interpreting the definition of secondary reinforcement differently.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

That way everyone, measurers and makers were working from the same set of instructions.


That's supposed to be covered by the ERS -Equipment Rules of Sailing - which covers the whole business of sail reinforcement in sufficient detail that my brain switched itself off when I attempted to read it.

However there's some evidence this train wreck may be related to differing readings of the ERS definitions. There are of course mechanisms to handle that, but it takes time. The general idea though, that the same interpretations are used by all classes, seems sound.



Edited by JimC - 18 Feb 13 at 4:55pm
Back to Top
Sheetpuller View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 22 Feb 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 114 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sheetpuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 4:59pm
Hmm...I'd like to see you arguing with the Race Committee,  'No no, it certainly wasn't me that was over the line...'  Big smile
I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right.

Merlin Rocket 3545 - 'Smooth Operator'

Sprint 15 1342 - 'Still Crazy'

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 5758596061 67>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy