Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
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Advertising via sail numbers? 55 |
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sandgrounder ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 01 Apr 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 220 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 18 Feb 13 at 10:33am |
Welcome to the forum.
I too have purchased and used sails from Speed Sails over many years since the '80s, and have been very pleased with both the sails and the service.
I am similarly unhappy to see the Speed Sails brand being dragged through the mud.
I would never "rubbish" a company or brand, either on a public forum or elsewhere, and I haven't done so during the protracted course of this thread.
However, I am aware that the Speed Sails brand has changed hands over recent years, on at least one occasion, and I would like to make an informed decision with respect to a long overdue sail purchase, hence my question, which remains un-answered.
This thread has served to highlight some important issues which I wasn't previously aware of, and for that I am thankful.
Happy Sailing.
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jeffers ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Mar 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3048 |
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Did you miss the part where other Fireball sails which are manufactured using the same method (i.e. 'load path' or 'tape drive') have been measured and approved by a class measurer? Different people will interpret the same rule in a different way. This is why classes have a Technical Committee so issues such as this can be clarified. Hats off to Graham who clearly did his homework prior to making his sails. I have no doubt he probably presented that to the person who measured his sails to save any confusion over the cloth/method he has used. The UKFA Technical man has confirmed that he believes these are not legal and has published a statement to that effect. Perhaps he was unaware of the existance of other set of sails made using this process which have been measured and signed off as class legal. Do also bear in mind that this statement was posted after the event. Do not forget we are also still unsure if the sails were actually measured by a class measurer or not. Just because you cannot see a signature on the photo does not mean they have not been done (might be on the other side from where the photo was taken). Any more comments like the above quote are merely speculation at this time. I do agree that this entire situation is shabby though and the statement made by the UKFA does seem like a knee jerk reaction especially given what else has now come to light.
Edited by jeffers - 18 Feb 13 at 1:28pm |
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Paul
---------------------- D-Zero GBR 74 |
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2547 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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I did see the postings about the other sails. That one has no case to answer his sails were measured, even if UKFA subsequently seem to disagree with who ever signed them.
The 555 boats sails do not look to be signed and if they were I am sure we would know about it by now. The fireball is an ISAF class and they should seek a formal interpretation on the sails to close the issue.
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rb_stretch ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 23 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 742 |
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I agree there are still too many unknowns that leave this a little messy, which does none of those involved any favours. The more official statements served to stop misinterpretation, but didn't increase the clarity. I've also not seen a definitive statement that any of the sails in question were measured by a class measurer and signed off as such. I'm hoping the parties involved are actually talking to each other so that they can clear this up in due course. In my book, a genuine mistake by one party or another is an acceptable conclusion if that is the truth.
Edited by rb_stretch - 18 Feb 13 at 1:40pm |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Measurers are not always perfect! I had an experience a few years ago. A well known international class had changed the way they measured sails (something to do with how they fixed the position of the mid-height measurment). Depending on whether the old or the new system was used there was a visible difference in the sailsmade to measure. A sailmaker friend therefore arrived at the championship with 2 mainsails, one to the old sysytem, one to the new. He asked the ISAF measure present how he was measuring the sails. Measurer was using old system, mainly because class had not informed him of new system.
Sailmaker and measurer went in to conclave as they re-read rules, measured both sails which both measured, (or not) depending on method used. So - who measured sails, using which measurment documents, which interpretation... Measurement issues - a Jury's nightmare |
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Gordon
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pondmonkey ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2202 |
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but not for an internet kangaroo court it would seem. So to ask the question, plain and simple, once more, 'were Fireball 555 sails officially measured?' I think we can assume, given the official statements presented via Mark, the answer is almost certainly 'no'. Once a mistake, two times careless.... three times, well that would be belligerent and disrespectful in the extreme, so isn't it good to know there won't be a repeat of this in the future? Edited by pondmonkey - 18 Feb 13 at 2:45pm |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Dunno, I think the more interesting question is "when could the sailors have known the sails weren't legal?" if indeed they are definitively not legal.
When one considers the Merlin episode the illegality of the sails seems to have been widely publicised before the event, and no-one seems to have been in any doubt about it, therefore they were right to retire. This one seems a bit more complicated. The website statement from the Fireball Measurer seems to postdate the event, and there seems to be at the least some evidence that the competitors had reason to suppose that the sails were legit and would pass measurement. Personally I'd find it hard to convice someone of a gross breach of sportsmanship in those circumstances. I think an awful lot of people would be in trouble if they could get penalised for not yet having got round to having their perfectly legal sails measured. Come to think of it I'm not sure I've had my last set of Canoe rags measured yet. There are a number of lessons from this, not the least of which being that Speed Sails need to considerably get their act together on clearing experimental design sails with measurers and it may be the FB association needs to work on communications. Edited by JimC - 18 Feb 13 at 3:15pm |
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Steve Cockerill ![]() Newbie ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Nov 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 11 |
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Sadly, I think that the mere fact that we are talking about this has already earned the company the marketing that they were seeking.
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Happy Sailing
Steve Cockerill Free Postage at: www.roostersailing.com Tel +44(0)1243 389997 |
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2547 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1151 |
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I think they would have known that had they asked a measurer to put his or hers signature on the corner of the sail as the rules require ... as everyone else does.
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gordon1277 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 665 |
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Hi
Sorry i have sailed for months without my sails being measured because i did not go to an open where a measurer was present and i was not going to the nationals. Whilst some people seem to think this is awful i am sure the vast majority of club sailors would be in this situation. I wonder if you checked how many people had new sails at the event had them measured before hand? I dont wish to get into the legalities of the tape drive as FB int seem to have confused themselves. |
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Gordon
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