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Advertising via sail numbers? 55
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ex laser View Drop Down
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Posts: 725 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ex laser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
    Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 11:12am
Originally posted by SoggyBadger

Originally posted by sandgrounder

I understand that Banks Sails manufacture the sails for Speed Sails, I'd simply like to know who I'd be buying them from? Anybody?


You'd be buying them from whoever you placed the order with. Whether you choose to place the order with Speed or go to Banks directly would be your choice.


i would check with speeds(sailboats) and banks.

just because they are made in the same loft, does not mean they are made of the same cloth or cut to the pattern.

if you want a speed sail you might have to go though sailboats.
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SoggyBadger View Drop Down
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 11:06am
It seems to me that the root of the problem is that various people are interpreting the ERS definition of secondary reinforcement differently. Given that ERS is supposed to supply an unambiguous set of definitions, ISAF really need to address this issue with some urgency and provide clarity to the issue.

My personal opinion is that Tape Drive is secondary reinforcement. It is applied after the body of the sail has been cut out and the panels joined together. 
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

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Posts: 2479 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 10:39am
Hi Graham. Thanks for answering my question about the construction of your sails in such great detail. Just to make it clear I wasn't accusing you of anything, from my point of view your sails look similar to the winners and not knowing a whole lot about tape sails and I wanted to know if they are of similar construction. I find it very interesting that they have been officially measured, this must mean all tape sails are/were ok to use at that time.
Needs to sail more...
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SoggyBadger View Drop Down
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Posts: 552 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 10:29am
Originally posted by sandgrounder

I understand that Banks Sails manufacture the sails for Speed Sails, I'd simply like to know who I'd be buying them from? Anybody?


You'd be buying them from whoever you placed the order with. Whether you choose to place the order with Speed or go to Banks directly would be your choice.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 9:32am
Originally posted by sandgrounder

Bearing in mind Mark's statement, and not wanting to offend anybody, I'd like to ask one final question on the matter under discussion.
 
I sail a SMOD, and now that all 3 authorised parts dealers in the UK sit in the same warehouse I am seriously considering changing class to one of the conventional dinghies, in order that I have access to a healthy choice of supplier to support my chosen sport.
 
As Speed Sails, with their outstanding history and heritage are one of the sail suppliers I will consider, I would like to know who they are owned by, as with any product and service in this day and age.
 
Can anybody please answer this question?
 
I understand that Banks Sails manufacture the sails for Speed Sails, I'd simply like to know who I'd be buying them from? Anybody?
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 6:41am
Yawn.... is it possible to have a new category set up for next years SJ Winter Series please, not "dinghy development" I'm thinking "perpetual moaning about handicap events" or "fuss about events I didn't attend and boats I've maybe seen in the boatpark but never actually sailed" would be far more apt.....
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Posts: 275 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 11:28pm

Originally posted by 2547

Good detail. Your sails were measured and you are 100% above board. 

Sounds like you are saying the uk fireball statement is incorrect and inappropriate. 

Were the winners sails measured?

Please don’t anyone put words in my mouth about the UKFA statement. I’m sure it was made with the best intentions and is correct to the best of their knowledge. Yes, it happens to be different to my (and others) honest interpretation of the rules but that doesn’t mean that anyone has any “explaining to do”, as someone said. 

When setting about making a sail, all a sailmaker has available to them, amateur or professional, is a copy of the rules, the same as can be downloaded by anyone who cares to look. Having studied them in considerable depth now, I do think it's fair to say that the rules are unclear and they can genuinely be interpreted in different ways. This means that one interpretation will be right, one will be wrong. Either way, we will learn and move on. I am quite prepared to be wrong and if so, I’ll make different sails for next time, as I would hope Speeds would.

I genuinely don’t know if the winners’ sails were measured or not and I’m not fussed either way. People have been doing club races, open meetings and pursuit races with unmeasured sails since before I was born and as long as they are roughly the right size and were built in good faith with the intention that they measure then I don’t have a problem. That goes for the whole fleet, from the winners to whoever finished last.

Perhaps though, times have changed and we all now have to have our sails measured for every race, without fail. Personally, I feel it would be a shame if this was the case.
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Noah View Drop Down
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Posts: 611 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:39pm

In-house measuring is not permitted under Fireball Class rules, so if anyone measured & signed the sail (other than an accredited UKFA measurer, with an official stamp) it has NOT been measured. This oddity has been discussed before (along with the sail construction debate).



Edited by Noah - 14 Feb 13 at 10:42pm
Nick
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:26pm
Actually I think things only really fired up when the UKFA issued their statement saying the the Aeroweb Tape Drive sails were illegal. It was inevitable that things were going to heat up if a boat wins an event with sails that the class association said were illegal. If you take a peak at their forum it stills seem people in the association think they are illegal.
 
If I had to guess at what has gone wrong I would say the UK measurers let the sails in without the international FB association having given their full approval. This statement now makes it clear you can't race with them.
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Posts: 739 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:15pm
Remember when Jonathon Ross and Russel Brand made those crank calls on Radio 2?  None of the listeners were bothered and enjoyed the show.

Then 10,000 daily mail readers who hadn't listened and got any of the context complained and started a witch hunt.

Anyone notice any similarities?
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