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Advertising via sail numbers? 55

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
    Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 9:02pm
Originally posted by batman

The winners sails are not class legal - no national lettering.

I really don't think anyone's going to lose any sleep over that... I'm certainly not going to: being an Australian subject of Her Majesty I really object to being supposed to put GBR on my mainsail and somehow it hasn't happened yet...

So in summary, to the best of the various competitors' knowledge they were entering with legitimate sails, but since then a statement on the Fireball website has apparently changed the goalposts on them?

Its rather a shame we didn't hear that 300 posts ago...

Edited by JimC - 14 Feb 13 at 9:04pm
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by JimC



So in summary, to the best of the various competitors' knowledge they were entering with legitimate sails,

.

I think we will know that once it is confirmed the sails were measured. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 9:24pm
Originally posted by JimC

 So in summary, to the best of the various competitors' knowledge they were entering with legitimate sails, but since then a statement on the Fireball website has apparently changed the goalposts on them?

I am very glad the sailors have confirmed they entered with what were considered to be a legal type of sail Smile  

The part that is hard to understand is that the tape drive sails were apparently considered legal (at least by several sailors) in the class for a period up to the race but have since apparently been declared illegal.   


Edited by r2d2 - 14 Feb 13 at 9:27pm
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by r2d2

The part that is hard to understand is that the tape drive sails [snip] have since apparently been declared illegal.  


Its not that hard to understand when you've heard some of the discussions that can go on about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin in some one design class rules. It seems to be very tricky framing rules about reinforcement and stuff, and that, I think is why ISAF have brought in their equipment rules of sailing which are full of standard definitions of reinforcement and so on in the hope of at least getting standard ways to describe this stuff.

I'm lucky enough not to sail in classes where its a concern.

Myself, I think if your class rules allow 3DL sails and yet ban rather cheaper forms of construction then its probably a sign that you've gone badly wrong somewhere and need to sit down and have a complete rethink.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:15pm
Remember when Jonathon Ross and Russel Brand made those crank calls on Radio 2?  None of the listeners were bothered and enjoyed the show.

Then 10,000 daily mail readers who hadn't listened and got any of the context complained and started a witch hunt.

Anyone notice any similarities?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:26pm
Actually I think things only really fired up when the UKFA issued their statement saying the the Aeroweb Tape Drive sails were illegal. It was inevitable that things were going to heat up if a boat wins an event with sails that the class association said were illegal. If you take a peak at their forum it stills seem people in the association think they are illegal.
 
If I had to guess at what has gone wrong I would say the UK measurers let the sails in without the international FB association having given their full approval. This statement now makes it clear you can't race with them.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:39pm

In-house measuring is not permitted under Fireball Class rules, so if anyone measured & signed the sail (other than an accredited UKFA measurer, with an official stamp) it has NOT been measured. This oddity has been discussed before (along with the sail construction debate).



Edited by Noah - 14 Feb 13 at 10:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 11:28pm

Originally posted by 2547

Good detail. Your sails were measured and you are 100% above board. 

Sounds like you are saying the uk fireball statement is incorrect and inappropriate. 

Were the winners sails measured?

Please don’t anyone put words in my mouth about the UKFA statement. I’m sure it was made with the best intentions and is correct to the best of their knowledge. Yes, it happens to be different to my (and others) honest interpretation of the rules but that doesn’t mean that anyone has any “explaining to do”, as someone said. 

When setting about making a sail, all a sailmaker has available to them, amateur or professional, is a copy of the rules, the same as can be downloaded by anyone who cares to look. Having studied them in considerable depth now, I do think it's fair to say that the rules are unclear and they can genuinely be interpreted in different ways. This means that one interpretation will be right, one will be wrong. Either way, we will learn and move on. I am quite prepared to be wrong and if so, I’ll make different sails for next time, as I would hope Speeds would.

I genuinely don’t know if the winners’ sails were measured or not and I’m not fussed either way. People have been doing club races, open meetings and pursuit races with unmeasured sails since before I was born and as long as they are roughly the right size and were built in good faith with the intention that they measure then I don’t have a problem. That goes for the whole fleet, from the winners to whoever finished last.

Perhaps though, times have changed and we all now have to have our sails measured for every race, without fail. Personally, I feel it would be a shame if this was the case.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 6:41am
Yawn.... is it possible to have a new category set up for next years SJ Winter Series please, not "dinghy development" I'm thinking "perpetual moaning about handicap events" or "fuss about events I didn't attend and boats I've maybe seen in the boatpark but never actually sailed" would be far more apt.....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 13 at 9:32am
Originally posted by sandgrounder

Bearing in mind Mark's statement, and not wanting to offend anybody, I'd like to ask one final question on the matter under discussion.
 
I sail a SMOD, and now that all 3 authorised parts dealers in the UK sit in the same warehouse I am seriously considering changing class to one of the conventional dinghies, in order that I have access to a healthy choice of supplier to support my chosen sport.
 
As Speed Sails, with their outstanding history and heritage are one of the sail suppliers I will consider, I would like to know who they are owned by, as with any product and service in this day and age.
 
Can anybody please answer this question?
 
I understand that Banks Sails manufacture the sails for Speed Sails, I'd simply like to know who I'd be buying them from? Anybody?
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