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Advertising via sail numbers? 55

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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
    Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:00am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

As for the class permitted trials. I bet my bottom dollar that I'd the phantom class permitted a 3m extra sail area as a class approved trial and that person won you lot would be screaming blue murder at me. Class approved trials should be kept at class only events.

 

LOL probably very true, but if it's class approved, it's class approved. 

(and I couldn't dispute your other points too... and as you will see from my last post, my 'defence' of sailboats.co.uk actions is rapidly ceasing... you can't cause this much controversy and not re-evaluate how you go about engaging in the future.  

It'd be like Tesco issuing a press release saying, 'f**k you, horsemeat's leaner and better for this fat f**kin' nation anyway'.
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Sheetpuller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sheetpuller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:03am
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by sargesail

 

But in a sense it makes me see James point about PY: the 800 races with new gear without a penalty because there is PY lag (if there is a statistically significant performance advantage to drive change over time).  A development class can, if class rules allow make much bigger changes and race off the same PY.  The lag may well be longer because these classes tend not to add much data.

it's worth qualifying that point of view though.... in a race designed to be just a bit of fun to bring some disparate classes together on the same start line (or finish line in a pursuit!) for a celebration of sailing;much like the ethos of the John Merricks Charity Pursuit Race (aka the Tiger Trophy), does it really matter that there is a level of inaccuracy in it?  If it is glaringly obvious, then of course the local RO can adjust, which is exactly what the Great Lakes scheme does in fact; bringing the system back to within levels of acceptable deviation for the majority of participants.

The problems occur when people take the handicap racing too seriously.  The system is not geared to cope with the level of scrutiny applied by such people- the statistics and real-world qualitative feedback is testament to that.  Two winners under the internet witch-hunt in as many years, constant criticism of 'bandits', folks calling for boats to be declared 'out of class' when their own manufacturer AND class association have granted temporary approval to a pending minor change.  

I've been critical of PY myself, but on reflection that's because I was taking it way to seriously at the time- probably because I was sailing a new class with limited class racing and I looked to the handicap events and handicap racing in my club to provide a similar 'level playing field' to class racing.  I was missing the point of the PY system... it could never do that, it doesn't pretend to do that; but it does bring its own merits in other ways and 100 boats out in the middle of silly sh*tty cold season.... well, that's good as long as people approach it with the right attitude.   It's also quite ironic that at the time of the Merlin kerfuffle I was also supporting the 'retire'/hard line' rules approach... unwittingly sailing myself, out of class, with tapered sheets!

The purpose of PY is bring people together, but this hardline approach is driving us apart..... 
 
Sorry; I don't agree with that at all.  What is 'a race designed to be just a bit of fun?'  Who decides that is how it should be seen?  Maybe the organiser of the race thinks it's 'just a bit of fun', but I would say that it's how the competitors see the race that matters.  At big events many of them have travelled a long way and at some expense to race; if they arrive to hear the RO say to someone, 'well I shouldn't worry about anything if I were you - the whole event is just a bit of fun really' then I think they'd be pretty hacked off - I know I would be.
 
If we follow your logic to its conclusion then we'll have to have official designation of 'fun events', where rule observance is noted by its absence, and 'serious events' where it is expected to be complied with, and enforced.  That way, sailors will at least know where they stand.


Edited by Sheetpuller - 14 Feb 13 at 10:05am
I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right.

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SoggyBadger View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote SoggyBadger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:12am
Originally posted by maxibuddah

As for the class permitted trials. I bet my bottom dollar that I'd the phantom class permitted a 3m extra sail area as a class approved trial and that person won you lot would be screaming blue murder at me. Class approved trials should be kept at class only events.
 


Spot on Maxi.
Best wishes from deep in the woods

SB

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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:13am
fair point Sheetpuller.... I think there's a middle-ground based on common sense which applies, but then fluidity and learning from experiences en masse and individually is bi-lateral by definition.  

I'd go so far as to say now, the blatant disregard Sailboats.co.u/Speedsails.com are currently showing to their fellow competitors by not actually acknowledging this 'difference of perspective' and bigging up their win and their intentions to re-enter the Perisher with the same kit, well, that's taking the piss... even for someone with a more 'liberal' outlook on this controversy.
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2547 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:16am
It's a shame all this ...

I used to view these major winter events to have almost as much status as winning a championships.

When I was a kid, if you won the Bloody Mary or Burnham Icicle you were a legend. 

These days people using these events as a PR opportunity or as a test bed for new kit just disrespects the events and the competitors.

Speed, RS and 420 winged rudders  Wink should take there testing elsewhere and leave those who want to sail by the rules to have a fair and enjoyable race.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:21am
There's no statement of intent to use THAT SAIL. If they rock up with a legal sail (measured and stamped by a class measurer) and ask the RO to allow them to compete under a different sail number, then they're in the same position as Phant 55 at the Tiger - i.e. legal.
Nick
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:25am
you mean that sail in their profile photo...?  Okay, well let's just wait and see what they unfurl on the day before accusing them of cheating... twice.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Kev M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:30am
A sorry state of affairs when the only person liking their updates is themselves.
Successfully confusing ambition with ability since 1980.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:30am
Someone has already put a protest in on Facebook, excellent!  LOL
Needs to sail more...
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 13 at 10:37am
well with any luck they'll get the message, to sail with that sail now would surely be beyond taking the mick?  
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