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Advertising via sail numbers? 55
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2547 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
    Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 2:29pm
A misplaced sail number isn't the same as a new sail construction method that is not legal.
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by GarethT

When I bought my boat, the sail numbers were 100mm above the prescribed position, and not parallel to the batten pocket. This puts them out of the class measurement rules.
 
I can't be arsed to peel them off, put new ones in the right place and have to deal with the sticky left behind in the wrong place.
 
At a class event I will no doubt be protested by a class measurer, but at a handicap event no-one will give a toss.
 
If I use this sail at a handicap event (as it is the only one I have), does this make me a cheat, showing contempt for my fellow competitors, or just lazy?

sensible I'd say... 

It depends on your definition of cheat, is it 
(1) someone who knowingly breaks the rules in a minor way where no advantage is being sought nor gained over other competitors
(2) someone who knowingly breaks the rules to gain an advantage over other competitors

If it is the former then personally I'd say so what, does it really matter, however if it is the latter then yes, you are a cheat and should be chucked out.
The trouble with this comes from the cycling world. Is Lance Armstrong a cheat? He used drugs (he has admitteded now so no alledgely) but was it to gain an advantage over everyone else? His point of view was no he didn't cheat as everyone else did it to, so he was only bringing himself up to a level playing field. To most people he is a cheat as he was outside of the rules.

Please note that I am saying this as devils advocate but the principle is bascially the same, it just depends on what your thoughts about cheating actually are.

Personally I'd say lazy or forgetful (we've all done something like that I suspect), not cheating, but by the rules you are.....

grey area open for discussion further there away from the subject of the Furball crew as these things start to get personal which is not desireable.

P.S. at a proper keyboard now....
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 2:33pm
Originally posted by 2547

A misplaced sail number isn't the same as a new sail construction method that is not legal.

Why not? It doesn't confirm to the rules does it? 
I know exactly what you mean but it depends on whether you use strict adherence or personal interpretations (see my previous post)
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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GarethT View Drop Down
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Posts: 714 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 2:33pm
It's knowingly breaking a rule though.
 
Is there a hierarchy of optional rules?
 
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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Posts: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 2:35pm
Years ago i was disqualified from 4 races of a Laser national champs because the first 2 numbers of my sail number were blue (and not red). Basically the rule states that the first 2 and the rest of the numbers must be contrasting. I lost my hearing because apparently the colour blind tw*t of an umpire (f-ing jobs worth) couldn't clearly distinguish between the blue and the black on a dull day! Probably should have appealed......but got so fed up up with the class i sold my laser a week later. 
The blue numbers were there only because the morning of the regatta when i picked up the sail, they were all i could get hold of, i explained this.......but i still broke the rules! This wasn't performance enhancing in anyway, infact its probably the least effective way of "cheating" in any class, yet the rest of the fleet sail round like bumper cars and look away when crossing you on port.....but that is a different matter. 
 
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 2:46pm
can I just check something... when I got home from collecting the Solo I noticed someone had left a rolled up load of lead roof flashing bolted to the boat.  This must be some weird part of the boat building process or something, some 'fred in a shed' work around no doubt. Naturally I unbolted it and chucked it in the recycle bin.

I just wondered what would happen if I deliberately had left it in there... y'know adding some illegal strengthening to the centreboard case or something, would that have been breaching the rules too?


Edited by pondmonkey - 12 Feb 13 at 2:47pm
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 2:50pm
Where's this bit about the Voltaire quote?

Is that better to ask forgiveness than be refused permission?
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sandgrounder View Drop Down
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Posts: 220 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sandgrounder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by Jamesd

Years ago i was disqualified from 4 races of a Laser national champs because the first 2 numbers of my sail number were blue (and not red). Basically the rule states that the first 2 and the rest of the numbers must be contrasting. I lost my hearing because apparently the colour blind tw*t of an umpire (f-ing jobs worth) couldn't clearly distinguish between the blue and the black on a dull day! Probably should have appealed......but got so fed up up with the class i sold my laser a week later. 
The blue numbers were there only because the morning of the regatta when i picked up the sail, they were all i could get hold of, i explained this.......but i still broke the rules! This wasn't performance enhancing in anyway, infact its probably the least effective way of "cheating" in any class, yet the rest of the fleet sail round like bumper cars and look away when crossing you on port.....but that is a different matter. 
 
 
Did you get a good price for the Laser?
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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Posts: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 3:06pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

can I just check something... when I got home from collecting the Solo I noticed someone had left a rolled up load of lead roof flashing bolted to the boat.  This must be some weird part of the boat building process or something, some 'fred in a shed' work around no doubt. Naturally I unbolted it and chucked it in the recycle bin.

I just wondered what would happen if I deliberately had left it in there... y'know adding some illegal strengthening to the centreboard case or something, would that have been breaching the rules too?

i thought it was sacrificial. Every pikey knows that a kilo or two of lead is worth more than the poxy lil boat its bolted to! 
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GarethT View Drop Down
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Posts: 714 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 3:08pm
How many solos did you say there were at your club?
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