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Advertising via sail numbers? 55

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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
    Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 11:36am
Originally posted by jeffers


How do we know that this was not declared though? Were you on the team taking entries? 

For all a lot of us know it was declared that they were using some development sails. Hell they may even have dispensation from the class to be using these (unlikely given the statement made by Vince Horey).

At the end of the day it is another mess that has left a sour taste in the mouth of people... 

That is why I prefaced my comment by "If interpreted correctly". 

I sincerely hope they did declare, because that would be my preferred outcome.

I added the statement at the end as a bit of encouragement for those that might know to at least keep us to the facts. It seems that one person who does know has already left a rather vague comment that has not helped.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 11:38am
Didn't the gentlemen concern feel rather coerced into retiring, bowing to the pressure of said internet witch hunt?  In their own words from the time, they hardly felt they were 'at fault'... to paraphrase, 'it's not like we used them at a Silver Tiller Event'

The runner-up & principal organiser were hardly cock-a-hoop that 'justice prevailed'.

Maybe this winner has a little more backbone and is prepared to say 'b**locks' to the post-event controversy?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 11:41am
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Maybe this winner has a little more backbone and is prepared to say 'b**locks' to the post-event controversy?


That sounds to me as if you are accusing them of being blatant cheats.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 11:47am
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by rb_stretch

 
 
If I was Speed Sails I would also be in damage limitation mode.
 


but who is speed sails... it's just a meaningless brand, Banks Sails built, Northampton Sailboats owned, unless I'm mistaken???   

'There's no such thing as bad publicity'... sure is.

If you feel strongly enough that 'they' are taking the piss out of you, your sport and sportsmanship as a whole, then simply boycott the following chandleries and sail providers:

- http://www.sailboats.co.uk
- http://www.speedsails.co.uk
- http://www.purplemarine.com
- http://www.banks.co.uk

The Speed Sails team are also tied into the promotion of Neil Pryde sailing wear.  Give this is a steer clear too... if you feel strongly enough that is.

The brand is the very thing people have in their minds when someone mentions the brand name. As such they can be very intangible, but never meaningless. The business school trend for outsourcing means many brands are never what you might call the whole business, and they have to manage the knock on consequences if there are any. You only have to think of the horse meat scandal going on right now.

So I was simply suggesting that if I owned the brand in question, I would want to either get the facts straight in this debate if they are not or at least make sure we don't associate the brand with something that is a bit of a debacle. Good business sense.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 11:55am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by pondmonkey

Maybe this winner has a little more backbone and is prepared to say 'b**locks' to the post-event controversy?


That sounds to me as if you are accusing them of being blatant cheats.

sounds to me like you are twisting my words... v. clever, but failing I'm afraid. 

No, I do not think they cheated.  I have posted as such.  On reflection, I do not think the Merlin cheated either.

I refer to Andy Rice's sentiment in 2011, breaking the letter of the law, but not the spirit of it.

At a deeply personal level the winner would get even more respect from me for not bowing to the pressure and retiring in the heat of the post event trauma, two fingers to the jim-jam folders... but frankly I could perfectly understand why they may just do that and never bother entering another one again, it's a charity pursuit race, not the Olympic Games.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 12:12pm
Cheating is such a provocative word, when used means the facts usually get obscured. 

Clearly the sails legality has been stated on the Fireball website. 

It seems unbelievable that a sailor of this standard didn't know of this.

So either a declaration was made at the time of entry and this is all a storm in a tea cup or the sailor knowingly competed with out of class performance enhancing (I assume this is the point if the new process) equipment. 

If its the former I would have expected it would have been stated by now, so if that leaves us with the latter then that is very naughty. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 12:16pm
How many other boats sails had been previously measured and signed off before they sailed at that event?

Presumably the fireball one wasn't and I suspect others weren't either, I can't believe everyone is totally up front. In most cases it would be that there isn't a problem its just that the owner hadn't managed to get it done prior to the event. If this is the case what's the difference, none, it's just that the fireball won and the others didn't.

There is no way that the organisers can check this sort of thing as no one would get sailing if they did as it would take too long. It is down the competitors to do it between themselves and if they don't it is a downside to large events like this. Either accept that it happens or don't do the event and don't sit here moaning about it either. Offer to help the organisers by volunteering to check all entrants sails for measurers signatures. That way you do not need to know the vagaries of each classes rules.

If you want to have a witch hunt continue it throughout the fleet exposing the other cheats who do not conform to their class rules, except you won't because it's too difficult and in most cases no one really minds too much.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 12:18pm
But James, all sailing is just for fun - even Silver Tiller and Nationals. To suggest that the Sailjuice series is less important purely because it is a PY event is unfair and patronising on those who spend £100 and a day pass to enter.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 12:24pm
Maxi, you are probably right. I wouldn't be suprised if half the fleet had either broken a class or sailing rule during the race (no correctors, no turns for touching the mark etc), but that doesn't make it any better! It isn't just the case that the sails hadn't been measured, it is that the sails do not measure and would not be accepted at any Fireball open meeting. So why should they be accepted at a PY open meeting? Because PY is less important or because you don't piss on your own doorstep?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 13 at 12:25pm
To clarify my point a bit...

Of course it is wrong that people push the limits of legality and sometimes overstep the mark, intentionally or otherwise, but unless checks are in place officially or by competitors it will happen.

In a fleet race of course it is easier and those pushing will be found easier. In py racing its not that easy especially if the other class sailors don't pipe up. That is why I said it needs someone checking equipment, and in all reality that ain't going to happen easily.
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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