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boatshed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Advertising via sail numbers? 55
    Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 12:40pm
Originally posted by JimC

[QUOTE=boatshed] I have in the past turned up at an event and been given a 50 point hit



And I'm assuming this was with a class of boat that complied with the class rules, ie was in-class ??

If so, the RO made a nonsense of the race.   That's no different to giving a hot shot helm a PY hit because they're a national champ and have won every race in the last year.

If a boat is declared out of class in an Event like the Tiger, it shouldn't be granted entry.    Without any historical data, the right of the RO to assign an arbitrary PY will be either beneficial or detrimental to that entry.  The chance of it being spot on is zero.    If it's a beneficial PY, it is detrimental to all the other competitors.

Randomly hitting the out-of-class entry with +50 points PY will, if they bothered to compete,  inevitably result in a pi$$ poor result and probably retirement.   And there is no saying how many in-class competitors race they will trash that day.

As I said, if there was prize money at stake, say £100k for winning, everyone would enter out-of-class boats and lobby the RO for a lenient PY hit.  

Thank god we compete in an amateur sport Wink




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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 12:53pm
Ultimately the only reason things are banned or not in class rules is that the class has agreed that it should be so. The logic or otherwise of the restrictions is really besides the point.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by boatshed

Every competitor should then protest the RO.
    

 If the RO decide it's a valid entry as a LipstickX, with an appropriate PY, then the other competitors have a choice...

Race it or f**k off


Yep, that's it.   I'd choose to not bother going at all. 

All these forum posts are because of blurred vision and the distraction of this being a PY event.

Can you imagine trying to enter an out-of-class Laser at the Olympics ?   And expecting that entry to be granted on the basis of the RO given an arbitrary time penalty/advantage to that entry.  No, it would be told to f**k off ( to use your very precise language) because that is the only proper response.

edited

 


Edited by boatshed - 07 Feb 13 at 12:58pm
Steve
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 1:00pm
so you'd not let some one race at a PY race with a rooster sail on a Laser?  That seems harsh and not very forward thinking to me... given the sport is spiralling into decline.

(caveat- if there's a 'laser' prize, then no, they shouldn't qualify and if I were the RO, I'd give a nominal PY penalty of 10 points to appease the hard-liners)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by 2547

Originally posted by pondmonkey

There is a genuine question over the Fireball class rules and tapes... no one has, in an official capacity, answered this question.  



Anyone???

well?

lets not lose the central question...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 1:03pm
Have you asked someone in an offical capacity?
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boatshed View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

so you'd not let some one race at a PY race with a rooster sail on a Laser? 


I'll answer with a question.   Could one enter the Laser Olympics with a Rooster sail ?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Originally posted by JimC

[QUOTE=boatshed] I have in the past turned up at an event and been given a 50 point hit



And I'm assuming this was with a class of boat that complied with the class rules, ie was in-class ??

If so, the RO made a nonsense of the race.   That's no different to giving a hot shot helm a PY hit because they're a national champ and have won every race in the last year.

If a boat is declared out of class in an Event like the Tiger, it shouldn't be granted entry.    Without any historical data, the right of the RO to assign an arbitrary PY will be either beneficial or detrimental to that entry.  The chance of it being spot on is zero.    If it's a beneficial PY, it is detrimental to all the other competitors.

Randomly hitting the out-of-class entry with +50 points PY will, if they bothered to compete,  inevitably result in a pi$$ poor result and probably retirement.   And there is no saying how many in-class competitors race they will trash that day.

As I said, if there was prize money at stake, say £100k for winning, everyone would enter out-of-class boats and lobby the RO for a lenient PY hit.  

Thank god we compete in an amateur sport Wink

 
Agree on the one-off PY hit, but I don't think that is really what we are talking about here.
 
The PY system works because classes generally have stable class rules that hinder big changes in boat performance. The exceptions are the development classes where we all know the PY can take a little while to catch up (and rightly so IMHO). If you choose to go outside class rules then quite frankly you can't complain if you get a punitive PY given. If you don't like it stay inside the class rules. Quite simple really.
 
However if you are keen to test a new development in a PY race, take the hit and do your own calculations to assess performance.
 
In all of this I still think people should have the right to protest just as much as the RO has the right to dismiss it.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 1:04pm
Just issue the out of class boat with an Experimental Number (which can be the same as the normal class PN in a case like this, where the sails are the same size and shape) but state that boats with experimental numbers can't win the main trophies. So, you get a result, but not the 100k prize money...

The same would apply to me taking my Minisail along, I guess. It doesn't have a published number, just what I sail off at the club. If I went to an event, I'd far rather they used the number I think is roughly correct, but banned me from winning the huge prize money or bottle of wine, than they gave me a 50 point slashing and made the race a nonsense from my point of view.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Post Options Post Options   Quote GarethT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Feb 13 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Just issue the out of class boat with an Experimental Number (which can be the same as the normal class PN in a case like this, where the sails are the same size and shape) but state that boats with experimental numbers can't win the main trophies. So, you get a result, but not the 100k prize money...

The same would apply to me taking my Minisail along, I guess. It doesn't have a published number, just what I sail off at the club. If I went to an event, I'd far rather they used the number I think is roughly correct, but banned me from winning the huge prize money or bottle of wine, than they gave me a 50 point slashing and made the race a nonsense from my point of view.
 
If it helps, I used to have a minisail way back when and the sprint version with the sliding seat had an official PY of 126 (old money), and my club adjusted my non-sliding seat variant to 130.
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