New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: SDS Cobra
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

SDS Cobra
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
AlexM View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Jan 06
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 857 		Post Options Post Options   Quote AlexM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: SDS Cobra
    Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 2:18pm
Or maybe we've move to another forum....
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 2:29pm
It is possible that RS 100 owners are now just going out and sailing the boat - all that can feasably be said about it has been said, a lot...

I sailed one at Minorca, and I sailed the Vareo there, too. Both seemed like nice boats on a large expanse of water. Can't imagine them being as much fun (for me) on a small puddle, but we all have our preferances, and mine may be odder than most.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
pondmonkey View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 2:31pm
Originally posted by L123456

most of the vocal 100 owners on here have sold up where as the D1 seems to still be a subject of discussion.

I can only really speak for myself, but as one of the more vocal initial owners it's still an area I find interesting.  I sold mine because of a knee problem, but I'm not entirely sure I would still be sailing it today regardless.

D1/RS100/Cobra... would it make any difference?  No, still not enough folks to race against at any of the local clubs in my area- unless I want an occasional match race inside a shandycap fleet and frankly 'having a kite' ain't worth that.   

And since owning my 100 I've decided not to bother with open meetings, if I'm going to use a pass for sailing, then I'd rather go windsurfing at the coast, and if the weather's nice, fitting it all to family time.  

(Leaving wife and kids playing on the beach in the summer while I nip out for a few sessions between ice creams is far more acceptable than abandoning them up in some random clubhouse with its crap coffee and slightly stale cakes while I do four races back-to-back.

The only thing I can say is that the RS100 was at least a safer investment for an early adopter.  I sold mine relatively quickly considering new boat offers were priced very attractively with +300 on the sail number over mine.  Whereas the same two D-Ones have sat on Apolloduck for months now, presumably because their current owners won't drop the price to realistic levels now the currency has swung back in favour for Euro priced imports.

That's not a criticism of either class, just the realities of economics played out before us.  FWIW- one of the D1s looks a total bargain - if you apply a realistic negotiation to it.


Edited by pondmonkey - 09 Oct 12 at 2:33pm
Back to Top
pondmonkey View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 2:39pm
In all honesty... best leave them with their creature comforts at home than drag them to a sailing club.
Back to Top
Ruscoe View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1514 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by ifoxwell


I agree but I do fear that Pondmonkey is right, and the 100 now has the single handed kite market sewn up.
 
 
I'm not so sure, after the initial excitement it has all died down a bit, many of the 100 fanboys on this forum have already sold up and moved on ...
 
The nationals numbers are not growing http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/class/RS100/attendance
 
The class had such huge hype before it was even in production perhaps the reality hasn't lived up to the hype ...

Meanwhile the D1 seems to be ticking along ok ...
I don't call 14 boats at a Nationals ticking along nicely.
 
Yes the numbers of 100s travelling is poor (I am one who does not travel) and this is a factor a lot of other classes are experiencing. The cost of fuel, people being careful with their money, people looking at windguru on a Friday and not travelling all influence attendance.
 
To improve on the 100 the Cobra will have to be cheaper, faster to windward, good on a close reach (anything too tight to carry a kite on the 100) and still match the looks of the 100. Plus it will probably have to be backed to the same level as RS would with any new boat.

Lets not start this sh*t flinging contest again.

Other wise we will have to compare European attendances, where the roles are very much reversed.  One thing i will say is check out the historic figures for the Musto vs. 700...

Tim is right in everything he says, we are quite happy ticking along as we are.  Sure more boat sales would be more then Welcome, but the D-one growth has always been an organic one.  What has become apparent is that people are quick to criticise without even trying one!  Why not come along to the Forumitee regatta, you are all more then Welcome!  

Nick Craig was right (i hope he doesn't mind me quoting him) following on from last years nationals a great boat will always sell.  He's right and is definitely a welcome addition to the class and now the euro is playing ball hopefully so will a few more.

Back to Top
pondmonkey View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 12 Aug 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by Ruscoe

 

Nick Craig was right (i hope he doesn't mind me quoting him) following on from last years nationals a great boat will always sell.  

Rodney said something similar Russy, and much as hope you're right, I'm not naive enough to think that a good product will always sell.  I have a pair of snowboard crash pads that are frankly the mutts nutts... but they don't have the name R.E.D (Burton) on them, so they're far from popular.  

It's certainly not the case in my industry that the best will always sell, where quite often inferior products can claim the premium due to sophisticated marketing and partnerships.  Nor with other technologies either and on reflection, some would even argue that a better product technically, isn't always a better product for the consumer...


But no sh*t fight - agreed.  I hope there's space for both the 100 and D1 to flourish and change the landscape of club sailing for the better.


Edited by pondmonkey - 09 Oct 12 at 7:41pm
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 7:49pm
I'll be the judge of what is the better product, D1 or RS100 and I'll find that out this weekend with any luck and enough liquid bribery Wink

It still wont make one product any more suitable to my diminished height and faculties or the crap beach I have to deal with.


Edited by G.R.F. - 09 Oct 12 at 7:49pm
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 12 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

Originally posted by Ruscoe

 

Nick Craig was right (i hope he doesn't mind me quoting him) following on from last years nationals a great boat will always sell.  

Rodney said something similar Russy, and much as hope you're right, I'm not naive enough to think that a good product will always sell.  I have a pair of snowboard crash pads that are frankly the mutts nutts... but they don't have the name R.E.D (Burton) on them, so they're far from popular.  

It's certainly not the case in my industry that the best will always sell, where quite often inferior products can claim the premium due to sophisticated marketing and partnerships.  Nor with other technologies either and on reflection, some would even argue that a better product technically, isn't always a better product for the consumer...


But no sh*t fight - agreed.  I hope there's space for both the 100 and D1 to flourish and change the landscape of club sailing for the better.

It's an interesting link; he writes about Stan Liebowitz, who has spent many years destroying the "Qwerty is an inferior keyboard kept in place by market forces like lock in and path dependence" and "Beta was technically superior but lost out due to market forces like lock in and path dependence" myths.

I've been reading Liebowitz's "The economics of qwerty", which is a very strong attack on the idea that inferior technology can grab a stranglehold in the market due to lock in and path dependency. It's interesting to read from a sailing viewpoint, because it's quite often said that inferior boats sell well just because of path dependent related factors like strong initial marketing etc (although the same companies also have many flops despite that supposedly enormous advantage).   Liebowitz' work seems to indicate that path dependence is pretty much a myth (or at least rare) and that popular products are normally popular because they are good products, in many if not all respects.

As PM says, a boat that may be inferior in some respects can still be clearly superior as a "whole product" - and of course (as in examples Liebowitz uses) even that supposed inferiority may simply be a myth when viewed objectively.
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 12 at 3:56pm
Lovely design, Peaky.

One query - if the ability to carry a kite on a reach is important (as some say) have you looked at using a 12 Foot Skiff style sectional shape? It may not fit with the wings and you may already be close (hard to see without sections and I understand you don't want to publish them) but they do seem to have an amazing ability to hold in on tight reaches despite having the biggest kite (compared to the boat) of all dinghies. Of course, they also have a fair bit of RM.
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 12 at 4:05pm
The Biggest con ever carried out was the suggestion that everyone buying the same dinghy was somehow a good thing and the use of the term 'Class' to utilise the quirky British adherence to its own 'Class' system with it's snob appeal.

If ever the perpetuation of inferior products was an art form, it is characterised by the dinghy world.
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy