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L123456 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 10:34am
Originally posted by ifoxwell


I agree but I do fear that Pondmonkey is right, and the 100 now has the single handed kite market sewn up.
 
 
I'm not so sure, after the initial excitement it has all died down a bit, many of the 100 fanboys on this forum have already sold up and moved on ...
 
The nationals numbers are not growing http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/class/RS100/attendance
 
The class had such huge hype before it was even in production perhaps the reality hasn't lived up to the hype ...

Meanwhile the D1 seems to be ticking along ok ...
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 10:49am
Customers are always wrong once you've got their money, everyone knows that.

Call me a Cynic but let me think Phantom and Blaze both similar speeds, one suffered from calls of Banditry and it's PY changed significantly the other didn't and now it's sales have increased, I wonder why...

And anyway, no-one was asking for the Blaze class to change, they were asking for the platform to be used as a new "class" if you want to use the stupid word, but a new product folk were asking for and even now it would still better the RS100 for all the reasons the RS100 was wrong. I.E you can get back into it if it falls over, it actually goes upwind half decently, it even almost planes upwind if conditions suit, it won't fall over whilst you ditch your trailer, it has more righting moment for light weights, the racks are adjustable so heavy guys don't have to sit out as far, do I have to go on to sell you your own boat?

So now the 'Cobra' emerges instead, but probably less likely to get any commercial traction under it, but since the Blaze hull unit is already in production, it would be a different top unit or fit out and a smart person would design it to be a retro fit in case there were some none luddite Blaze owners being suppressed by the talkative minority.

It's such a no brainer only a dinghy sailor would miss it. LOL


Edited by G.R.F. - 09 Oct 12 at 10:51am
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 10:50am
BUt your handicap will reflect that unused kite onboard Tim... and the averages that generate the RYA list will include W/L results too, where let's be fair... a D1 and an RS100 can really excel in the light-to-moderate fluff that's typical of UK waters.  

Of course the answer isn't to adjust handicaps accordingly (the war of attrition that is handicap racing is well underway without adding the added complexity of kited singlehanders into that mix); the answer is in proper fleet racing for these new classes on courses appropriate for them hosted at clubs with a wide-enough catchment area to make it all possible.

Then we're into a chicken and egg debate... very few clubs seem to have the Gurnard/Parkstone/Datchet/Lymington mentality of buying en masse.  It's piecemeal, word of mouth fleet development.  A slow, laborious process for any early adopter- a not without frustration and in some cases, resentment from the established classes.  Or the other option- just accept what's on offer currently, follow the herd and enjoy some proper racing...  and much as it pains me to admit it, the latter seems so much easier when you take a step away from the sport for a couple of years.  


Edited by pondmonkey - 09 Oct 12 at 10:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 11:24am
From a performance perspective I think that probably works, but adds a level of complexity that makes it too niche.

It's not all about kite size. Leverage matters too. See the graphs on p3 and p4 of this old thread.
http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6900&KW=rs100&PN=4&title=assy-kite-size-optimisation
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 1:03pm
Customers are always wrong once you've got their money, everyone knows that.

All very well (even if wrong) but the real trick is to sell to them more than once !  For that you have to give them what they really are prepared to buy more than once.  If they like 'it' they will change for a new one every so often - If they don't then you will just be helping your competition in the long term.   

Does anyone really think it sensible for any manufacturer to cannibalise an already healthy class that that still has enormous amount of potential 'as is' ?  We welcome your general support for the Blaze of course but you could as easily argue for a second sail to be put on a Phantom or a Solo.  Or say wings on a Phantom.... or perhaps a trapeze on a Streaker .... but maybe that is not the point.  

Mike L.

PS - We wish Peaky well with the Cobra concept - but will point out in case 2+2=5 is already the calculation out there that it is not a Cirrus 'stalking horse' and not our project  ! 
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 1:08pm
If the Blaze platform could be modified such that the rigs were swappable (yes I've seen that pic of the blaze with the kite) - that would be interesting. Two boats for the price of one and a bit.
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by timeintheboat

Two boats for the price of one and a bit.

you get three boats for the price of 1 and a bit with Laser and an RS100!!!  (and look how well that's working out with the latter...)
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 1:33pm
Just to make one thing clear, the Cobra is not going into production (unless people want to put down an off-plan deposit!). I posted it here as an example of what could be done, because it so closely reflected what Getafix posted and because I thought it might get some discussion going. It would, of course, be a fantastic sailing boat that accelerates smoothly, handles without vice and performs in all winds, but you'll just have to take my word on that!
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by ifoxwell


I agree but I do fear that Pondmonkey is right, and the 100 now has the single handed kite market sewn up.
 
 
I'm not so sure, after the initial excitement it has all died down a bit, many of the 100 fanboys on this forum have already sold up and moved on ...
 
The nationals numbers are not growing http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/class/RS100/attendance
 
The class had such huge hype before it was even in production perhaps the reality hasn't lived up to the hype ...

Meanwhile the D1 seems to be ticking along ok ...
I don't call 14 boats at a Nationals ticking along nicely.
 
Yes the numbers of 100s travelling is poor (I am one who does not travel) and this is a factor a lot of other classes are experiencing. The cost of fuel, people being careful with their money, people looking at windguru on a Friday and not travelling all influence attendance.
 
To improve on the 100 the Cobra will have to be cheaper, faster to windward, good on a close reach (anything too tight to carry a kite on the 100) and still match the looks of the 100. Plus it will probably have to be backed to the same level as RS would with any new boat.
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Oct 12 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by ifoxwell


I agree but I do fear that Pondmonkey is right, and the 100 now has the single handed kite market sewn up.
 
 
I'm not so sure, after the initial excitement it has all died down a bit, many of the 100 fanboys on this forum have already sold up and moved on ...
 
The nationals numbers are not growing http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/class/RS100/attendance
 
The class had such huge hype before it was even in production perhaps the reality hasn't lived up to the hype ...

Meanwhile the D1 seems to be ticking along ok ...
 
Yes the numbers of 100s travelling is poor
 
What I mean is after the enormous hype of the launch, much of which happened on this forum the interest seems to have died off and most of the vocal 100 owners on here have sold up where as the D1 seems to still be a subject of discussion.
 
RS have a huge market share and voice in the UK and many had not even heard of Devoti so it's no surprise in the UK the 100 got off to a head start but if you look past the UK shores the D1 seems to be getting up to speed ...
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