V Twin

why are you all so obsessed about the weight of the contender? It's a bit like constantly asking 'does my bum look big in this?' the answer is usually yes, but who gives a damn? · Originally posted by G.R.F.

Originally posted by G.R.F.

Bikes: I sell downhill ATB's don't know where you've been, but i ride one with hammershmidt 2 speed auto change front, and uppy downey push button seat post, 6 inch travel front and rear forks adjustment to lock em out for uphill, lights that make night day, hydro formed alloy, carbon bars, heat resistant disc rotors, powered by hydraulic brakes, it goes on.

But if weight is so important, what are you doing messing about with a dual suspension bike that is heavier than a hardtail, road bike, singlespeed, hardtail or CX bike of equivalent quality?

I'm not expert, but as I understand it and as Bike Radar puts it, "interest in road cycling in general and in hybrid bikes in particular is on the up, mountain biking’s star is on the wane, and the level of interest in folding and singlespeed machines remains static." My books on bike design indicates that the mountain bike marked started to slump within a year or two of dual suspension and discs hitting the mass market. So where is the proof that the increase in MTB technology has actually made it more popular?

Sorry, but a piece of comparatively heavy sporting equipment of declining popularity doesn't seem to be an example to hold up when you are saying that boats must lose weight.

And is there any evidence that MTBs are actually advancing faster than boats? Bikes have auto suspension, boats have flex-tip masts. Bikes can adjust their forks, boats have single-string rake, ball bearing travellers and gnavs. Bikes are hydroformed alloy and carbon, boats are foam sandwich and carbon. The ultimate performance dinghy (Moth) has increased its speed vastly more the last decade, and the downhilling speed record has been static through that time while road speeds have actually declined, to the great relief of those who see it as evidence of success in the doping fight. So there's not much evidence that bikes lead boats in development or that greater speed equals greater interest. 

BTW re Austin 7s; yes, people no longer drive them around much, but on the other hand the '50s vintage Lotus/Caterham 7 still claims to be the world's most popular racing car. Nor does any popular motor racing class seem to be without the minimum weight rules you are so much against. So it's not just the sailing world but also the motor racing and bicycle racing worlds who are all marching out of step, and only you who is right.....

I completely agree that dinghies need to be more accessible, but you can't make them more accessible by demanding that they become lighter (which means extra expense or reduced durability or a change in attitudes, like not crashing them onto shingle beaches) AND cheaper AND AND easier to sail AND more complex. 

One thing that no one in the "destroy all the old classes" camp has ever demonstrated is exactly how this would work. For example, if the Solo started to decline tomorrow, the existing owners would suffer a considerable loss in their resale. Exactly how are they going to then afford to buy the new craft that those who claim superior intellect and wisdom tell them that they need? And don't forget, despite various subsidies the classes that take the ultra-light path you are advocating are failures in the mass market. 

There are physical issues in design that complaining will not erase. Surely the hybrid windsurfers like the Mistral Prodigy you were involved in demonstrated that! For all the hype, they failed dismally at competing with longer boards because the laws of physics do not change, no matter how many Prodigys or VTwins are launched.

What you seem to be doing is complaining without worrying about reality for normal sailors, just like people complained about longboard windsurfers back in the '80s - and look how much that hurt windsurfing. The basic idea that sport equipment needs increased performance and reduced weight is simply not borne out, as looking at comparable sports demonstrates. Dinghy sailing is progressing quickly, compared to many other sports (although IMHO there's far too much emphasis on increased performance and not enough on increased accessibility) but the fact is that the fastest boats do not attract many sailors, whether noobs or vets.