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Jack Sparrow View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: V Twin
    Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:55am
Laser EPS - 63.5kg - must of been it's weight that people didn't like then.

Edited by Jack Sparrow - 23 May 12 at 11:55am
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:48am
Originally posted by alstorer

Graeme is in good company in his obsession with weight, Uffa Fox is on record as saying
weight is only of advantage in steam rollers
 

Well he was right.

So the entire volume producing business have now turned their efforts into producing heavy washing up bowls and marketing that as the sport to the masses, what chance is there, when a man woman or even two grown men will struggle to even lift it, never mind car top it, or push it about the yard.

Heavy things very soon become too tiresome to bother with anyway and folk move on.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:44am
I'm here to help you..

So you can realise why your silly sailing sport is dying on it's feet, why there is hardly a balance sheet in the entire business that is in profit, why no-one other than kids take up racing, why there is only one class that has any volume of support.

Y'all will thank me one day. Wink

And Marky where the feck did you dig that up from... LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:39am
Graeme is in good company in his obsession with weight, Uffa Fox is on record as saying
weight is only of advantage in steam rollers
Mindyou he did design keel boats as well as dinghies, so hhe must have recognised there is a place for weight afterall
-_
Al
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:32am
Originally posted by G.R.F.

 Silly attitude - dinghy culture laid bare 

If you lose you head, when all around you keep theirs, you misunderstand the situation. I repeat, do not try and impose your values on others, it won't work.

I've been touring the dinghy circuit for 40 years, sailed at myriad places, shore dumps and not, but seems to me your issue is that you sail in a place that does not suit you. Now that is not the dinghy racing worlds' problem surely.

Does everyone else at your club have the same fundamental belief that the whole dinghy world is wrong and should change to suit your specific venue? Or are you going to insult all of your club mates here too? If so, that might explain why no one helps you on the beach.

I truly think you are in the wrong sport, sport, or at a minimum, in the wrong place.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:23am
One of the things I liked about the proto 100 was that it stayed upright when launching. When I heard that the lighter production version didn't, I did some sums. For a boat to be stable it's centre of gravity needs to be below it's metacentre (not it's centre it's buoyancy).  Based on a quick CAD model of a 100, it turns out that that the metacentre is about 80cm above the keel and so is the centre of gravity. A heavier hull lowers the centre of gravity enough to give it some positive stability, a lighter hull means it is inherently unstable. 
  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote marky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:10am
GRF on a good day...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:06am
Originally posted by G.R.F.

 

But try coming ashore being faced by a 1 in 3 wall of shingle with another wave about to try and drag your boat back on the backwash and you'll soon wish your boat was a bit lighter oh and more durable.


I was of thought some dead weight in the hull would help.  In my experience the lighter boats with big rigs tend to be the biggest PITA for shoredump launches, look what happened at the 600 nationals a few years back.  How many snapped masts???
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 11:00am
Originally posted by fab100

oh Graeme for heavens sake... all this cr*p about minimum weight.



There it is - right there.

Silly attitude - dinghy culture laid bare, which is fine if all you have to do is trolley your boat into a convenient village pond.

But try coming ashore being faced by a 1 in 3 wall of shingle with another wave about to try and drag your boat back on the backwash and you'll soon wish your boat was a bit lighter oh and more durable.

As to other classes Contender? There's no need for that to be the weight it is not in this day and age.

There must be loads more, it is their culture after all, weight? Who cares...

And don't start me off about the bend characteristics of that short mast and small 100 sail or you'll be here all day.


Edited by G.R.F. - 23 May 12 at 11:05am
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 10:54am
oh Graeme for heavens sake... all this cr*p about minimum weight.

The majority of dinghy sailors sail one-design classes, whether in class or menagerie racing. In racing, the objective is racing against others not simple-minded speed-freakery-going-fast. If the appeal came solely from speed we'd sail cats or boards, Zarquon help us. But we don't 'cos it don't. So reducing minimum weight just adds cost to no tangible, worthwhile benefit. The same principle pretty much applies to some dev classes too, Moth and Cherub being obvious exceptions. But even then you are missing the point - velocity is relative: there is nothing speed-exciting about sitting in a jumbo jet at 550mph at 35,000ft  after all. The fun comes from being on the edge of control and that can happen as much in a firefly (try run-to-run gybing one in a F6 and a big sea alongside 60 others -  and don't get all condescending on something you've never experienced, such behaviour is simply pathetic) as anything else.

Even you have just admitted to a domestic over buying your EPS: why would the rest of the dinghy world be immune? "Darling I need to buy a new boat, so we won't be going on holiday this year. Why? Because Graeme Fuller thinks my boat should be 10% lighter, to no real benefit to anyone but we must all bow to his wishes." You may want to to start chopping down all Kent's trees, 'cos the lynch mob will be there anyday now.

Your motivation may be different from the rest of us, which is fine, but please to not try and impose your personal values on every one else.

And as for luff curve not matching mast bend, I think you've just libelled a whole industry. Their class action against you for suggesting they are negligent should be fun. Have you not noticed, even now, that design is a compromise when a boat/mast/rig has to perform in winds from 2mph to 35 mph and in sea states from flat to whoa, scary? Ye canna change the laws o' physics. Not even through the Y&Y forum.

Now I happily accept my top batten on the 100 wants to hook a bit in 4 mph, but I'll deal with that for it to work in 25+. Everyone else with a 100 has the same issue too and the principle, almost by definition, applies equally with many other SMOD rigs. Otherwise, i'd say the 100 sail and mast are matched fine: there are no over bending or other creases as you would get if the sail and mast fought each other. 
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