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tickler View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 May 12 at 4:20pm
Many of you chaps are being unkind about this EPS thing, but Looking at GRF's history with dingies he has never sailed a simple singlehander. What fun it will be to just sail. get in it and sail. No development, nothing to tangle. He may find that he just enjoys sailing for the sake of sailing.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

. I would say selling it as I knew I wouldn't have the time to maintain my own learning curve (by committing to the class events and training) says more about me than the boat.  

So you're saying marketing a product to a person that is the target audience, has sailed since he was young has a high disposable income, but because he needs to maintain that income with a nine to five job he can never really operate the product, is a good solid business model. 

So you then try to make him feel somehow inadequate with stories of sailing deities whilst offering training weekends to do what exactly? Teach him something that somehow managed to elude him in a lifetimes sailing?

And you think that's logical? Or business sense or a long term solution for a sport or pastime?

You don't think maybe offering a product with the same sense of excitement that is achievable by a wider market and audience would perhaps give a company, a market, an industry a better degree of longevity?


Edited by G.R.F. - 22 May 12 at 4:17pm
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

 Edit realisation dawns: and don't think I don't realise all this sucking up to 'professionals' isn't geared towards you blagging your final resting place in a P&B special Solo with brass handles and a man with a top hat walking in front with extra black plumes on the horses..

oh you cynic, but no, I'm not here blowing sunshine up the arse of the industry... that's the type of service I'd expect when buying a new boat.  I do however recognise that when expectations are met there is general sense that 'thank f*ck someone can still do a job right.'

BTW- it's highly unlikely I'd buy a P&B Solo, much as the service was good, I've never been overly fond of their sails ever since dropping down the club Oppy ranks when using one in 1991, fortunately clawed back the following season by switching to a Carlsen (now part of Norths apparently).  If/when the time comes to actually spend any money on a Solo I'd imagine I will be placing my business elsewhere (for the sail at least), oh and yes, I would be making sure the luff curve matches the mast and going for a fuller, more downwind focused cut to try to offset my appalling downwind sailing technique.


Edited by pondmonkey - 22 May 12 at 4:14pm
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 4:00pm
it's true... the issues you encountered with the RS100 were known niggles, I guess we come to expect that with a new boat and to some extent I got a perverse sense of discovery from finding them out ahead of the curve.  Chopping those stupid kite tidies out and swapping the fixed kite halyard running blocks under the chute for rotating ones certainly gave me the advantage to plod on when others were shorebound with gear failure, lack of will power or fear their wives were getting too cosy with the RS workshop team.  

With regards the MPS... I would say selling it as I knew I wouldn't have the time to maintain my own learning curve (by committing to the class events and training) says more about me than the boat.  And for what it's worth, I certainly parted in good spirits, hoping that one day a situation might arise where I can sail one (or something similar) again.
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

But you're pigging around with one prototype or new release after another; this latest rig nothing more than a cut n' shunt from the workshop floor, no wonder bits just don't work.

Buy an established class from an established retailer and you'd find the experience is a bit different.  

I bought a Musto Skiff from then, Victor Boats.  All the rope lengths were right, using high quality Marlow rope, specced for appropriate job.  Even the trap wires pre-spliced into the adjustable mode.  The Harken standard fit out was mint, using carbo blocks were appropriate, so no concerns over dodgy fittings.  I had a full handover before driving off so I was totally confident when rigging it on my own for the first time I wouldn't mess it up.  No complaints- straight onto the water for a surprisingly successful first sail.

When I bought a Phantom from P&B I got them to deliver it as part of the deal.  When I arrived at the club I was expecting to find it all in polythene wrappers and with a soggy instruction manual taped to the trolley to assist me 'put it together'.  However I was delighted to arrive and find the mast was rigged, all rubbish was taken away and all control lines set to my weight- factoring in the mast and sail choice I'd made.  To add icing to the cake, the guy who'd delivered had even gone to the office and found out where my boat park space was and put it in there for me.  Again I rolled the cover off and was on the water within 15 minutes of getting changed.

It's not all as shabby as we make out... you just need to pay the professionals and accept they've done this before, so probably know more about it than we do.

    

Oh really? Do you seriously want me to go over all that good old ground with my supposed brand new RS500 and it's failings, or my brand new RS100 that let me down so spectacularly at the nationals with something that everybody else but me knew would go wrong, not to mention my Alto with it's freshly shed gel coat and God knows how many other issues that only my love of it prevented me kicking off about at the time.

And your oh so nice MPS where's that then and why aren't you still sailing it? Oh of course now, you have to work for a living so not really possible is it?

A Phantom - granted my chum has had not a problem, a rare island in a sea of grievance.


Edit realisation dawns: and don't think I don't realise all this sucking up to 'professionals' isn't geared towards you blagging your final resting place in a P&B special Solo with brass handles and a man with a top hat walking in front with extra black plumes on the horses..


Edited by G.R.F. - 22 May 12 at 3:53pm
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Posts: 586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Slippery Jim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by pondmonkey

But you're pigging around with one prototype or new release after another; this latest rig nothing more than a cut n' shunt from the workshop floor, no wonder bits just don't work.

Buy an established class from an established retailer and you'd find the experience is a bit different.  

I bought a Musto Skiff from then, Victor Boats.  All the rope lengths were right, using high quality Marlow rope, specced for appropriate job.  Even the trap wires pre-spliced into the adjustable mode.  The Harken standard fit out was mint, using carbo blocks were appropriate, so no concerns over dodgy fittings.  I had a full handover before driving off so I was totally confident when rigging it on my own for the first time I wouldn't mess it up.  No complaints- straight onto the water for a surprisingly successful first sail.

When I bought a Phantom from P&B I got them to deliver it as part of the deal.  When I arrived at the club I was expecting to find it all in polythene wrappers and with a soggy instruction manual taped to the trolley to assist me 'put it together'.  However I was delighted to arrive and find the mast was rigged, all rubbish was taken away and all control lines set to my weight- factoring in the mast and sail choice I'd made.  To add icing to the cake, the guy who'd delivered had even gone to the office and found out where my boat park space was and put it in there for me.  Again I rolled the cover off and was on the water within 15 minutes of getting changed.

It's not all as shabby as we make out... you just need to pay the professionals and accept they've done this before, so probably know more about it than we do.

    
A1 post!
Pass the skiff, man!
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 3:30pm
But you're pigging around with one prototype or new release after another; this latest rig nothing more than a cut n' shunt from the workshop floor, no wonder bits just don't work.

Buy an established class from an established retailer and you'd find the experience is a bit different.  

I bought a Musto Skiff from then, Victor Boats.  All the rope lengths were right, using high quality Marlow rope, specced for appropriate job.  Even the trap wires pre-spliced into the adjustable mode.  The Harken standard fit out was mint, using carbo blocks were appropriate, so no concerns over dodgy fittings.  I had a full handover before driving off so I was totally confident when rigging it on my own for the first time I wouldn't mess it up.  No complaints- straight onto the water for a surprisingly successful first sail.

When I bought a Phantom from P&B I got them to deliver it as part of the deal.  When I arrived at the club I was expecting to find it all in polythene wrappers and with a soggy instruction manual taped to the trolley to assist me 'put it together'.  However I was delighted to arrive and find the mast was rigged, all rubbish was taken away and all control lines set to my weight- factoring in the mast and sail choice I'd made.  To add icing to the cake, the guy who'd delivered had even gone to the office and found out where my boat park space was and put it in there for me.  Again I rolled the cover off and was on the water within 15 minutes of getting changed.

It's not all as shabby as we make out... you just need to pay the professionals and accept they've done this before, so probably know more about it than we do.

    
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 3:26pm
Funny that was so nearly on the to do list this spring.. Lester Noble, Jonny Hutchcroft, Si reynolds have all been and that really nice guy from Aardvark already pointed out that I could probably carry it into the water, be an interesting recovery though in our shore dump.

I've got a neat sail that would make one of them go pretty well..
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 3:17pm
All this stuff about weight makes me think GRF should go to Pro-Vela in Spain and learn to fly a moth. So light anyone can carry it into and out of the water.

Oh, but hang on, when he gets his ar*e caned by the existing Moth crew, there will be no valid excuses
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 3:10pm
I'm impressed, some time back grf was baiting everyone else, now everyone else is baiting grf.

strange world as Graeme says. keep it going Graeme and enjoy what you are doing. so what if it flies in the face of popular convention, and doesn't even work as you hoped I'm sure you're having more fun than most of us all tied up with heaps of frustration.
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