New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: V Twin
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

V Twin

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4243444546 142>
Author
oldarn View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 440
Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: V Twin
    Posted: 26 Apr 12 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by rogue

'tie the mainsheet to the harness'

Would I want to go it in a more powerful craft, on the sea... well I guess that depends on circumstances.  

If there's local rescue cover then probably not, in the event of serious rescue, sod the boat, they can pull me out without the risks of me being dragged off with the boat or having the b**tard sheet pinned around my ankle without a free end to get hold of and untie myself.

If there isn't club rescue cover then I guess in the event of coastguard/RNLI rescue being with the boat would make me easier to spot, especialy given both Graeme's and my aversion to naff, brightly coloured sailing apparel, so the risk is worth it.  



Do you mean more powerful than an MPS?

I'm not sure what Graeme wants to achieve speed wise.I assume similar, but without all that capsising stuff and why not at that sort of speed on the sea when relying on local cover. It is exactly the thrill of speed in waves in a up to a force 6 that for me is what dinghy racing on the sea should be about, but again for me certainly not single handed and yes, reasonably safely. I know Graeme would prefer to be out there with his great crew and friend, who we have sadly lost, enjoying the challenge together. Two handed non skiff boats are relatively safe since there is always the other person if one is in trouble, and even if inverted, if of sensible design, it should be recoverable.
 
To try and achieve this experience on the sea, in wind, in a single handed craft, why not, but at 60 kg some compromising will have to be done. Reduce sail area slightly, reduce buoyancy, do away with double bottom, or at least, as already suggested make in semi double bottomed and of course accept  a partially filled cockpit after capsise cleared quickly with bailers. Accept about four capsises a season, perhaps two of which might require assistance in righting from club rescue but all this assumes you take measures to make it 95% proof against inverting.

Achievable without any major changes to concept.
thefastexcitingrunningasymmetric
Back to Top
Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1341
Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 12 at 2:04pm
Hurricane 500 had a big pole which swung out from underneath for righting. Not sure how you would attach and stow that on the V-Twin though.
Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"
Back to Top
x1testpilot View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 11 Feb 11
Location: Ealing
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 175
Post Options Post Options   Quote x1testpilot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 12 at 1:04pm
Sorry to hear all your troubles with righting. I think it is a really difficult problem. I have thought of lots of useless ideas! I do hope you (or someone) can solve them.

I would recommend a sealed mast with external halyards (we have semi sealed - still a hole at the base), though I think this is not enough for a complete solution.
I like to take pictures of sailing, but I'd rather be sailing!
LCSC.org.uk
Xdinghies.com/ X0 & X1
Back to Top
tickler View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Jun 07
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 895
Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 12 at 1:03pm
Dinghy sailing will always be a hazardous affair.  The concept of a wobbly human being balancing a boat against inconsistent forces of wind while it slops up and down on waves is a silly way of getting from A to B. Hanging an anvil underneath seems a good way of encouraging stability but most dinghy sailors reject that idea because it is slow and cumbersome. We are stuck with it. Dinghies fall over. Mr Fuller made a valliant effort to produce a boat that showed a reluctance to fall over but those very charachteristics, working in reverse, seem to be its major flaw. If I was sailing it I would be reluctant to exploit its performance potential because I would be terrified of the consequences.

I am sick of trying to get my little Byte back up and because of slight health worries I have decided to stop doing it. I intend to tie a line from the mast head which will clip onto the bow eye. I will climb into the rescue rib, reach into the water, detach the line and pull the mast up. The rib can then tow the boat into shallow water  where I can right the boat with my feet on the bottom........or just abandon it and send the boy out......or buy a Solo.

I think that unless GRF finds a solution to this dilema he will never enjoy the promised performance of the machine.
Back to Top
rogue View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 04 Dec 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978
Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 12 at 12:25pm
'tie the mainsheet to the harness'

Yep, I posted it.  It's what I did in the MPS to have access to the mainsheet whilst holding the kite sheet from the wire.  It's by no means and original idea and AFAIK, it's a practice relative newbies to the boat do, as the more experience you get with the boat, the more happy you are to take both sheets onto the wire in the first place.

Would I want to go it in a more powerful craft, on the sea... well I guess that depends on circumstances.  

If there's local rescue cover then probably not, in the event of serious rescue, sod the boat, they can pull me out without the risks of me being dragged off with the boat or having the b**tard sheet pinned around my ankle without a free end to get hold of and untie myself.

If there isn't club rescue cover then I guess in the event of coastguard/RNLI rescue being with the boat would make me easier to spot, especialy given both Graeme's and my aversion to naff, brightly coloured sailing apparel, so the risk is worth it.  

We should never forget the inherent risks we all take when sailing, especially if we do it in an unproven, 'theoretical' craft which may well have been homebuilt/finished without a properly qualified design or Quality Management System in place.  At the very least, if your loved ones can get your body back, well that gives them some chance of finding peace with the decisions you've taken.

Sorry if that's a tad sombre for the usually jovial V-Twin thread, but it's the reality we face every time we go sailing and some recent aggressive correspondence over my own sailing experiences has made this a very salient point of late.


Edited by rogue - 26 Apr 12 at 12:31pm

Back to Top
oldarn View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 440
Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 12 at 11:20am
Graeme, surely with all this advice it is time to get back to basics which I see as this:-.
1  Do you honestly believe, leaving capsises out of it, that it is likely to achieve the performance expectations  you require? Only you know the answer to that. So assuming you can see the performance you require is within reach, then where next.
2  I assume by the design that capsizing was intended to be rare, but if, or rather when, it did happen, you should be able to right it, other than in the most unforeseen circumstances.  Now, I suggest, forget solving the total inversion route and concentrate on preventing inversion. IMO, only if solving the latter is not possible is the project doomed.
3 Accept that you could get separated and the craft blow away.  Either take the risk that this will not happen and if it does, tough, or go for ,was it 'rogue's solution. Tie the mainsheet to harness.

You now have to solve just two things. 1 preventing inversion, and 2 minimising the likelihood  of capsizing. In the case of 1, there have been many suggestions, and in the case of 2, perhaps follow a similar logic path that, as previously outlined, we followed when developing the AltO, and I guess you have an opinion on as to how successful that process proved to be. 
thefastexcitingrunningasymmetric
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956
Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 12 at 10:28am
For the lever to work well, you still need a way of exerting pressure in the right place. I know that if you have a lever big enough you can move the world, but the Vtwin might be trickier than that...
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011
Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 12 at 9:39am
Would it be possible to use some sort of lever to right the boat?
Maybe it could be carried under the rack somehow?
Use it like putting your weight on the plate, but longer and at a better angle?
Back to Top
tickler View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Jun 07
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 895
Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 10:39pm
The whole point of the gas filled mast float thingy is that there is no reason why it should notice when deflated. I might be old, bald and past it but even I resist the idea of a pop bottle tied to the mast head. Remember, my idea was to connect a deck mounted gas cylinder that had a valve operated by a string through the center board slot.....hey use helium and a big enough mast head bag and it could shoot up with the mast vertical throwing the noble Mr Fuller off into the oggin!

The idea of trying to sink a float down through the water using rope and pullies sounds like a non starter to me.
Back to Top
ham4sand View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jul 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 452
Post Options Post Options   Quote ham4sand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 10:35pm
i think inflated wings will only help slow down capsizing, but once your over will make it harder to get up!

edit: also that exploding sausage requires re arming every time you capsize, just saying


Edited by ham4sand - 25 Apr 12 at 10:36pm
John Hamilton
cherub 2645 - cheese before bedtime
cherub 3209 - anatidaephobia
laser 176847 - kiss this
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4243444546 142>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy