New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: V Twin
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

V Twin
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4445464748 142>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Atrocity View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 23 Jan 11
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 42 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Atrocity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: V Twin
    Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 3:11pm

There has been much discussion over the past few days regarding getting the thing upright after a capsize, but nothing said about how it was going prior to the incident.  Looking at the photos there was no shortage of wind (looks like a full force 4), and a good range of boats from which to measure against (RS400, 470, Contender, Merlin Rocket, RS Vision and Lasers).  I would be really interested in how the boat was performing relative to the competition. 

The key question is, were you swapping tacks with the RS400 (in which case the project has legs and a solution to the capsize issue is worth pursuing) or swapping tacks with the Vision (in which case it may be time to cut your losses and buy a Vareo, because if it didn't go in that wind then the time and effort making it easily rightable will be to no avail).

Atrocity
Back to Top
themeaningoflife View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 06 May 11
Location: Essex/ Kent
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 212 		Post Options Post Options   Quote themeaningoflife Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 2:52pm
Exactly what I was going to say: see here  http://www.catapultcats.com/sailtech.capsize.html
Cambridge University Lightweight Rowing Club
RS800 1128

kindly sponsored by RWO Marine
Back to Top
ASok View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 26 Sep 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 739 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ASok Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 2:51pm
Isn't that how the firebird cat a few pages ago worked?
Back to Top
Mark Antony View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 02 Jan 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Antony Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by simonrh

Didn't the catapult have shrouds that allowed you to leave the rig partially in the water when righting?



That's a clever idea. A ratchet or some sort at the shroud fixing point on the hull to play out 2 0r 3 metres of shroud. This would allow the hull to be got to 45 degrees angle before the drag of the sail plan is encountered. At that leverage point, Grahame's weight ought to be sufficent to do the rest. Even from inverted, the lessening of the drag must be of some assistance in getting the hull back from inverted.
Back to Top
blaze720 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 1:11pm
Greame

We all never stop learning ... unless / until we choose not to learn.  There is nothing like trying things for yourself and learning directly rather than accepting second-hand learning. 

There are a lot of cliches that can be used here including 'What does not kill us generally does make us stronger' so keep at it as long as its still teaching you .... despite all the ribbing you will continue get  (but)  if it ever gets to the 'flogging of dead horse' stage .. seriously ...  bite the bullet and move on.   You often need THREE attempts to get to where you hoped to get in one hop.  

Everything learned looks so bloody obvious to everyone else (who tend not to try things themselves) when you try stuff ... and to you of course as well  but only after you've tried something for real !! 

Mike L.
Back to Top
bferry View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king
Avatar

Joined: 01 Jun 09
Location: Malta
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 190 		Post Options Post Options   Quote bferry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 12:33pm
How about trying out 2 centre boards, one on each hull side.  Would this help with the righting moment?  Or possibly a longer central board which would create more leverage?
Bernard
Vareo 249
Miracle 2818
Malta
Back to Top
simonrh View Drop Down
Posting king
Posting king


Joined: 10 Jan 10
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 186 		Post Options Post Options   Quote simonrh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 12:29pm
Didn't the catapult have shrouds that allowed you to leave the rig partially in the water when righting?
Vortex Asymmetric 1064
Dart 18 7118
Smartkat stunt sailor extraordinaire
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 12:21pm
A lot to sift through here, some good ideas and excellent hindsite, a skill I'm becoming increasingly expert at.

The boat has bulkheads, I guess it wouldn't be difficult to ensure the side tanks flooded, but then they would both have to flood, then er wouldn't that be called 'sinking?'.

The reason all this is taking the time it is, is because I wouldn't dream of taking it out without rescue cover and had already briefed the boys in the boat that it would likely be difficult to right and if I did go over, only sort me out after any or everyone else is sorted.

I'm not sure about the catching up with it, I've swum miles in my time chasing windsurf boards trapped in waves, and downed kites blowing out to sea, I can't believe a dinghy would elude me, but then my arrogance has punished me considerably already at my early assertion 'dinghy sailing how difficult can it be?'
 In fact I've lost boards only twice in my time, once like Hector in a dry suit (why I don't favor death bags) on Queen Mary when my rig separated from a displacement board (very round and sticky up) which sailed away merrily propelled by its centreboard and the other time in a force 10 squall at Hayling mid Grundig Marathon when the entire board and rig just blew up in the air and away, never saw it again, what you get sailing a board called a Superlight in a hurricane.
However On launching the twin on thursday into a big shore dump with a wind that had just swung dead offshore following a squall and had me temporarily washed off the back luckily only up to my waist so was able to jump forward and catch onto it, but remember wondering wether a surf leash might be an idea, because without an idiot like me on it, it wouldn't tip over, it would have been France next stop, so it is more problematic if ever we were to become separated, it would definitely carry on and probably faster and more efficiently without its crap helm slowing it down.

So some conclusions that I now draw from all this.

1) Dinghys are made to go over deliberately easily so they can be easily righted, I wish someone had told me that.
2) If they do go over it is better that they sink, at least partially, (now I understand the logic behind the Alto, not that it goes over often but if it does it comes up full of water which always irritated me in the past)
3)Windsurfing rigs that just fall over flat are so much better than these stupid things with wires holding them up, maybe I should just rethink how the mast is held up and fix it so it falls over rather than the whole thing going over, it would also solve the getting away from me problem if I did happen to fall in.


Edited by G.R.F. - 25 Apr 12 at 12:23pm
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 11:45am
Quite. I think you just have to accept that a boat like that will be hard to right, but also (hopefully) hard to capsize. So just make sure there is safety cover around and concentrate on how it performs the right way up.

Letting the kicker off and uncleating the jib might help a bit.
Back to Top
rogue View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 04 Dec 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 12 at 11:37am
Graeme- I sent you a box of matches, the day has NOT come yet to use them.

Worse case scenario- you're restricted sailing when there's safety cover and in fairness you're unlikely to call upon that resource the more you sail it.  If you'd bought another skiff type boat, then the chances are you would have got more than your money's worth out of them, so don't worry about one crappy incident, chalk it up and get the boat back out there again... enough with the pigging around.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 4445464748 142>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy