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rogue View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by haroosh

James, I think most folks have predicted this would be a flop from the second we set sight on the design.
Hats off for trying something but come on it looks awful....His money and time to waste I suppose.....but don't keep making outrageous claims about its potential performance.
Admit defeat and get a vortex or something like that.
I still think the much better concept was Andy Patersons big winged singlehander a year or so ago that he took so far then moved off.
That to me is the way grumpf should be looking.



I think it's too early to write it off... just as every boat has a compromise, every one will have its time to shine.  Whether or not the range of that shine is broad enough is another issue. 

Although even that doesn't really matter, all that counts is that it will need to work on short chop with a dumpy coast, in F4 sea breeze being helmed by 65kg bloke of (respectfully) desk-jockey performance... as I doubt for one minute anyone else would buy this off him if he sacks it.

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haroosh View Drop Down
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Posts: 521 		Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 3:14pm
There's a lot of love for the blaze this week???????
Keith
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rogue View Drop Down
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by timeintheboat

I suspect if the blaze had a kite this thread would not exist.......

I suspect if the Blaze had a kite the D-One and RS100 wouldn't exist either... well not in any significant numbers that's for sure.

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timeintheboat View Drop Down
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 3:00pm
I suspect if the blaze had a kite this thread would not exist.......
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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haroosh View Drop Down
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Posts: 521 		Post Options Post Options   Quote haroosh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 2:51pm
James, I think most folks have predicted this would be a flop from the second we set sight on the design.
Hats off for trying something but come on it looks awful....His money and time to waste I suppose.....but don't keep making outrageous claims about its potential performance.
Admit defeat and get a vortex or something like that.
I still think the much better concept was Andy Patersons big winged singlehander a year or so ago that he took so far then moved off.
That to me is the way grumpf should be looking.
Keith
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Posts: 1532 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by rogerd

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”
 
not my quote but sums up this thread I think.
 
Thanks to T Rosevelt

Well said Roger. Well said.

Now FFS Graeme, never mind the b*ll*cks, get out there in a breeze  Tongue
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rogue View Drop Down
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

  if it turns out to be a total rfwot I'll happily admit it, but so far yes in light sub 5 mph it doesn't go, but we always knew that. 

It's hard to admit when you get it wrong, but FWIW you're a good way off calling it a flop yet- especially now you've seemingly modified some of your expectations, or at least, better qualified them to the 'Musto girlies'.  

However, if you do find it completely stinks for not meeting your initial goals, costs a fortune on depreciation when you finally offload it and above all,  it proves to be totally unseaworthy when you go to right it, launch it and handle it ashore on your own, just remember you're in fine company!   LOL

Originally posted by G.R.F.

 Now, I didn't have to share any of this, it is a fecking experiment after all 

but where would the fun have been if you hadn't???


Edited by rogue - 04 Apr 12 at 1:55pm

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fab100 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Doesn't have to be leeward heel.  

I started writing about windward heel, then deleted it, on the basis that until there is enough to hold the sails in the right place and shape, the medicine will cause more harm than the disease. But I agree, beyond that point, I suspect ww heel needs to be part of the toolkit.

Then there is the option of sitting so far forward that the rocker pulls the stern sections out of the oggin. Easier with a crew - not so easy to tack or gybe whilst remaining on the foredeck when single-handed. And yes, as a laser sailor, I know all about how to (illegally) propel and steer while standing in front of the mast
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 12:41pm
Doesn't have to be leeward heel.  I recall seeing the top scow Moths sailing downwind in light airs heeling way over to windward till the windward rack was just clear of the water.  Tried it myself  later when I got a chance to sail one and experienced a cat-style pitchpole in a F2  -you have to be careful not to sit too far forward, tho' the V-Twin has so much buoyancy up front it's unlikely to be a problem.

Where I suspect you might have a problem is the tunnel making the transition to the heeled position too abrupt and unpredictable.  That's why people don't seem to be able to heel a Vortex onto one hull in the light, advantageous as it might be. With a flat-bottomed scow it was very progressive.
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 12 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

Yes if you want to risk it and it is bloody scary, you can sit on the wrong side and again depending on the strength of the airflow, you could lift the windward side, I haven't had the nuts to try that yet and the racks are not totally that secure they could just fall off, something I've been busy this week trying to rectify.

Yup, that rack-locking defo needs doing, then take the brave pills and experiment. We are only talking about doing this in very little breeze after all, but easy for me to say -  I've got no knowledge of what sort of zephyr would have you scrabbling frantically to the windward side. But if/when it does tip you out, keep hold of the mainsheet but let go of the tiller-ext!
Great book for Club Sailors here
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