New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Sailjuice Global Warm up handicaps
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Sailjuice Global Warm up handicaps
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 13>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sailjuice Global Warm up handicaps
    Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 3:01pm
It's not just the waves, it's the room and constant wind, they can generally always find clean air, that is unless their feathers get tangled when they leave the line and they all float round the course rafted together, they still beat everyone mind even though it's a nightmare for the recorders, all those long sail no's all rafted together.

Downwind if we're forced to 'two sail' a reach in the Alto, chances are we'll not overtake them, then get one of those clever feckers who can do all that sailing by the lee stuff and they'll come close to staying with a 470 with it's kite up on a dead run.

They are no slouch, if someone ever had the nouse to rework the sitting in bit and chuck a half decent rig on it, it would still be a useful boat on the sea.

If it were up to me I'd handicap em 1076 on our water.


Edited by G.R.F. - 28 Nov 11 at 3:02pm
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 4:12pm
Here's a little thingy I did last year, a comparison of tidal and non-tidal results at large handicap races. Please don't read too much into the figures. It perhaps indicates a trend only. PY split into 5 groups.
 
 
I seem to remember posting this before, to some derision, ah well.
 
 
We're on the sea and Lasers only do well if sailed by good sailors, i.e.  Laser Masters Euro champ and ex 2xMerlin champ......mind you there are some good youngsters in rafdials that do quite well at times. Oh, and small adults in 4.7s when it's blowin old boots seem unstopable
Back to Top
getafix View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by ex laser

one of the troubles with the way this thread is going is the fact some people think that most people sail on the sea and because of this, think its somehow more important. Wink

the fact is there are a lot more pond monkeys than sea monkeys! Smile




but why? it's soo resistriced and boring compared to sailing on the briney stuff.... unless you happen to live right in the middle of the country, or somewhere equally dumb like the middle of London ( Wink) then you've really got no excuse.... sail on the sea, abandon the ponds, leave your flooded quarries, half-full resevoirs and tree-lined rivers and get a face-full of bracing sea air, as well as some actual sea if you're lucky ... it's just like sailing inland only far more interesting!
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by GK.LaserII

......mind you there are some good youngsters in rafdials that do quite well at times. Oh, and small adults in 4.7s when it's blowin old boots seem unstopable
 
Very true, we have some (big) youngster who like to chuck a 4.7 up when it is blowing old boots and get some great results. I could do the same in the full rig (chuck a radial on) and have done in the past but only really for giggles!
 
As a comparison on 1 occasion I asked the RO to work out my finish position on the full PY despite using the smaller and 'slower' sail...I would still have won the race by a large margin.....
 
Part of the skill of sailing a boat is using the boat in all conditions, under canvassed boats do well when it is honking (L2K springs to mind among others already mentioned) but this is the exception rather than the rule. Some people use these examples to try and skew things away from the 'norm' or average (which is what PY is all about after all). Well all accept that some boats, inland on restructed waters will clean up with a sailor of moderate ability at the helm, put that helm in another boat or a different class and they will struggle.
 
The PY system is just a way to try and even out all these differences, as we all know and (sometimes grudgingly) accept it is not perfect but it gets us all out on the water and racing and not to take things too seriously.....
 
Hats off to the SailJuice clubs for trying something different, as with all 'new' things it may take some time to get it right (look at DRS in F1 this year as an example). As long as the PYs published are based on facts at the clubs n question then there is no argument. Thos who sail classes that are not normally sailed there cannot make too much noise until they get their results established. Either that or don;t go, which would be a shame. The couple of times I have gone to the GGP it has been a great event. Just a shame it is conflicting with family commitments at the moment!
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by GK.LaserII

...Lasers only do well if sailed by good sailors,

My experience is that all classes only do well if sailed by good sailors.
Back to Top
jeffers View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 29 Mar 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by GK.LaserII

...Lasers only do well if sailed by good sailors,

My experience is that all classes only do well if sailed by good sailors.
 
What I think he is getting at is that some classes flatter peoples sailing ability when compared to their PY so sailor X might beat everyone by miles in class X but put him in class Y and he is nowhere....
Paul
----------------------
D-Zero GBR 74
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 5:21pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by GK.LaserII

...Lasers only do well if sailed by good sailors,

My experience is that all classes only do well if sailed by good sailors.
 
There's good and Good. My point was to counter GRFs point about lasers on the sea being bandits. In my limited experience on our tidal stretch the Laser sailors have to be very Good to do well.
 
Thanks Jeffers for that clarification.
 
 
Back to Top
OultonBen View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 Oct 11
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 49 		Post Options Post Options   Quote OultonBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 7:01pm
(1) Think of comparing Tidal with Stagnant (carefully chosen word, he-he !):-
Tidal-Current taken to extremeis:-
there's going to be a boat slow enough AGAINST the current, to have zero or negative velocity over the ground,  ......... whilst a faster boat will have a finite finishing time
[This effect can be clearly seen .... e.g. outside the Felixstowe Ferry Club, where 505's can sneak around that pesky groyne (which forces boats out into the stream), while slower Lasers, or Mirrors just go around-and-around in circles and get nowhere ! ]

Ergo sum:- Slow boats will ALWAYS do relatively worse in tidal environments. This because they are affected disproportionally more by adverse current, than helped by fair current.
No-one can squeeze past ..... when you're as "Chunky" as myself !
Back to Top
OultonBen View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 04 Oct 11
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 49 		Post Options Post Options   Quote OultonBen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 7:03pm
(2) Regarding the Handicaps, I really like them so far ..... but haven't yet seen the full list of negative adjustments ...... presumably for 'my' class.
For our Club PY Return we had calculated the Laser to be 1124 (inland, with a bunch of high-quality helms who appear unable to win when they deserve to); problem was that this adjustment appeared so way-out that we chickened-out and returned a measly 1100 (in the right direction though).

(3) Any mid-PY boat in a truly mixed fleet is going to have to contend with poorly sailed 'fast' boats, and therefore has greatest difficulty achieving its own yardstick. If on the other hand there is little depth amongst the fast boats (if that makes sense), then say, a Laser must be able to sail with more freedom and hence better to yardstick.

(4) Well Done SJ !



Edited by OultonBen - 28 Nov 11 at 7:04pm
No-one can squeeze past ..... when you're as "Chunky" as myself !
Back to Top
G.R.F. View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 10 Aug 08
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 11 at 7:08pm
It's nothing to do with current, it's to do with wave speed, quite often the waves are travelling faster than your average laser (yet slower than a faster handicap boat), so they come along, lift up the lasers ass and give them a lovely free ride, whilst providing more slow hillocks for faster handicap boats to climb.
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 23456 13>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy