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Hiking singlehander (no kite)
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Poll Question: Imagine you want a hiking singlehander would you?
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8 [19.05%]
34 [80.95%]
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tickel View Drop Down
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Joined: 21 Dec 05
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Posts: 408 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hiking singlehander (no kite)
    Posted: 18 Oct 11 at 8:28pm
Originally posted by rogue

[QUOTE=tickel] And last years Byte Nationals were won by a 20 year old boat......but some b**tard burnt it so this years inlands were won by an 18 year old boat, nationals in less than two weeks.....


well sailed    

[/QUOTE

Not by me I hasten to add...........
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r2d2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 350 		Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 11 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by Contender443

I guess I am asking is there the need for another hiking singlehander.
No, no kite no interest (with the exception possibly of the RS300)
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 5:23am
I had a 1978 Laser until about four years ago, and in Laser Masters titles it could beat world champs in races and overall, so it (and the two-season old sail) can't have been too slow.

I now have a 1988 boat and its speed felt fine at the World Masters a couple of years back, despite using the sail from my '78 boat. I haven't sailed it much at all for the last couple of years because it's spent the last two seasons loaned out to mates, both of whom have now got their own boats. The few times I have sailed it, I've had a ball; I love the way you can chuck that little boat around, and how well it performs for such a simple and short-rigged boat.

Whenever I hop onto a new boat I notice how different it feels - but how similar its speed is.
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Guests View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 7:39am
Are competitive older boats necessarily a good thing for a class? Presumably it holds back new boat sales, and hence limits the number of cheaper boats available second hand for entry to the class. Conversely, it also means that a brand new boat is no better than something from 30 years ago - which hardly encourages me to buy new.
I therefore suspect it is healthier to have a life cycle for a boat - fully competitive for say 5 years, reasonably competitive for another 10 perhaps.
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tickel View Drop Down
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Posts: 408 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 8:00am
It has been said before but do better sailors buy newer boats? If you put a top sailor in an old boat will they do just as well?

Also on the subject of suitable singlehanders. Give me a Supernova with a carbon unstayed mast. That would do the trick.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 8:58am
Re: unstayed supernova, It'd be an improvement, but the boat is what, 70kg? We are in the 20th century, there is no reason that we should be sailing boats that are 50% heavier than they need to be. Pah!

Re lasers - I have owned 10 ish. Hulls are fine, the fact that they are polyester and go a bit softer is probably a good thing for an unstayed boat (bad for stayed tho). The sails last about as long as any non full batten dacron, i.e not very long. Problem is that the spars are very consumable (you'll break a topmast every 6 months of hard sailing, the rivets rot out of the other spars) and the foils are incredibly fragile and difficult to repair well.
Completely agree that hulls are good for decades assuming good
Basically, for a serious campaigner who is getting through a couple of sails and a few spars a year, it certainly used to be the case that trade-ins on entire boats were as cheap a way as any of getting new sails and spars. The recon second hand boats then bouy the used market somewhat.
The laser is a cheap boat ( only just these days) but is appalling value, and has big ownership costs due to a lot of parts being unfit. If you took a through life approach, you'd not need to own a "proper" boat at say 50% more capital cost for long- say 2 years for a net saving. This approach implicitly  assumes a decent amount of sailing - i.e 50 days a year. If you're just going to leave it at the sailing club and sail once a year then you may as well stick to the cheapest option.
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 9:05am
The better sailors tend to be the ones who do the open meeting circuit, nationals etc, plus they might even do that weird thing called 'training', so the increased amount of use, combined with the impact that being towed will have on any boat, means a top sailor will wear out a boat - and sails - much more quickly than the average weekend warrior.  Unless those sailros can spend a lot of time maintaining their boats they will need to replace them if they want to stay at the top of their game.

This is what happens with 470s.  They tend to only be bought (in this country) by would be olympians who thrash them all over Europe and pile on the rig tension, race after race, training session after training session, before dragging them along the autobahn at great speed.  Unsurprsingly the boats go soft - not helped, it is fair to say, by being light across the foredecks - so the boat gets a reputation for not lasting very long when in fact it's spent many many more hours on the water/road than the average club boat.

Yesterday I enjoyed a brief blast in an old Claridge europe that has been carefully restored.  It felt amazingly responsive and quick, just like a new one in fact.
the same, but different...

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rogue View Drop Down
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 9:16am
Originally posted by Peaky

Are competitive older boats necessarily a good thing for a class? Presumably it holds back new boat sales, and hence limits the number of cheaper boats available second hand for entry to the class. Conversely, it also means that a brand new boat is no better than something from 30 years ago - which hardly encourages me to buy new.
I therefore suspect it is healthier to have a life cycle for a boat - fully competitive for say 5 years, reasonably competitive for another 10 perhaps.


as a consumer I'd be happy with that model.
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timeintheboat View Drop Down
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Posts: 615 		Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 1:25pm
Originally posted by tickel



Also on the subject of suitable singlehanders. Give me a Supernova with a carbon unstayed mast. That would do the trick.


Does a fully battened main on an unstayed  mast work?
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 11 at 2:04pm
The D-One is fully battened and unstayed. 

However, I am not sure why Dan thinks the Supernova is particularly heavy at 62.5kg, which suggests you could make a production boat with those characteristics that is significantly lighter and robust. An all new class could be lighter, nut in comparison the Laser is 59kg (if you are lucky) but narrower than a supernova. Even an RS100 hull only weight is 55kg and I think the concensus would be that its a well built modern light production boat. The 100 has a sailing weight of 80kg with carbon mast and boom so the supernova and Laser are probably heavier, but not disastrous. At least the Supernova has a decent section mast unlike that heavy old drainpipe on the laser!

I also think putting an unstayed mast on a supernova misses the point. It could have had that from the outset, but then wouldn't have the huge range of adjustability that comes with the controls and allows it to carry a wide weight range in different conditions without having to change sails.

A good carbon unstayed mast is a marvellous thing and gust responsive, but usually doesn't give the same range of adjustability for weight of sailor and wind force that a stayed rig can even with an adjustable gate such as used on the 100.

 
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