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alstorer View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Oct 11 at 10:45pm
Target customers for the Q'ba were more the Sunsails/Neilsons/smaller operators etc weren't they, with (up till its luanch) big fleets of Picos- how well has it done displacing Picos?
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oldarn View Drop Down
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 11 at 10:14am
Originally posted by ifoxwell


I know that in the market as a whole these are still small numbers and there have undoubtedly been loads of great designs over the last 30 years that are stilling selling well..
Ian


Ian, I meant, which of the many great design of the last 30 years, excluding the last five, are still selling well? The 5K, 4K, Boss, ISO, Buzz, 600, Vortex, and more. Other than the Vortex, boats you might call skiffs, depending on 'what is a skiff?
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Originally posted by oldarn

which of the many great design of the last 30 years, excluding the last five, are still selling well?

Depends what you call a *great* design really... The 29er I would say is a great design, the RS200 possibly, the Feva maybe, perhaps the RS600, but not many more. You could maybe add a few more if you include great designs within the development classes, but that's not quite the same thing.
But then I don't know that I'd list that many "great" designs in all...
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Posts: 280 		Post Options Post Options   Quote didlydon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 11 at 10:37am
We've recently bought 4 Q'bas at our club for training, & i have to say they are brilliant! Quick & easy to rig & set up & with surprisingly good performance - Which I guess comes from a sweet hull shape - Nice!
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oldarn View Drop Down
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Posts: 440 		Post Options Post Options   Quote oldarn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 11 at 10:58am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by oldarn

which of the many great design of the last 30 years, excluding the last five, are still selling well?

Depends what you call a *great* design really... The 29er I would say is a great design, the RS200 possibly, the Feva maybe, perhaps the RS600, but not many more. You could maybe add a few more if you include great designs within the development classes, but that's not quite the same thing.
But then I don't know that I'd list that many "great" designs in all...

Interestingly you pick and obvious skiff and a non skiff. While I'm not wishing to deliberately be anti skiff, there are few if any selling well and if you now include designs of the past five years which are selling, they are clearly non skiff and more 'traditional' with rocker. In fact picking a few of Paul Hanley's designs such as the K1 and K6 and others, the hulls are not so different in shape to the Firefly.

So is Uffa Fox rather than Bethwaite  having more of an influence in modern dinghy design?
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tickel View Drop Down
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Posts: 408 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 11 at 11:14am
Why is there such a prejudice against Supernova? Mark Giles designed it without CAD about 12 years ago? and they must be approaching 700 boats. They do everything well and appeal to a wide variety of helms. Perhaps Sea Monkey (who evidently Knows everything) would consider them as well as Lightning, another Mark Giles boat to be "Noddy classes".
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 11 at 11:42am
Dunno about prejudice against the Supernova. I have sailed one, but it didn't really strike me as anything very noteworthy, just another slowish singlehander, of which there are no shortage.

Originally posted by oldarn

So is Uffa Fox rather than Bethwaite

I'd say neither... Fox' concept of a V section hull is more or less extinct, except, perhaps to an extent with some of Bethwaite's boats. In some ways the sections of modern boats hark more back to Morgan Giles than Fox. What has changed (apart from generally lower rocker) is that modern boats have, in general, finer bows, waterplanes much further aft and more powerful sterns. In particular bows are much finer above the waterline, which is probably something you can say self bailers/self draining boats made possible.

Edited by JimC - 06 Oct 11 at 11:50am
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 11 at 12:35pm
The Supernova certainly harks back to a day when boats had a beginning, a middle and an end. Many designs now have kind of got rid of the last 3rd, which makes them great as planing machines, but not at all good in displacement conditions. In enough breeze to get moving, but not enough to plane, which is a good portion of British inland weather, the Supernova is fantastically fast. In true planing weather, the boats that Jim describes are certainly faster, and the Supernova will often be found upside down...

From what I can see, successful British designers of recent years (Morrison and Handley spring to mind) have been able to use the best of what has gone before added to their own ideas to produce some cracking boats.
As for "great" designs, I guess it depend how you measure greatness - on boat sales, or on how it sails? 
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Oct 11 at 8:50pm
Originally posted by oldarn

Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by oldarn

which of the many great design of the last 30 years, excluding the last five, are still selling well?

Depends what you call a *great* design really... The 29er I would say is a great design, the RS200 possibly, the Feva maybe, perhaps the RS600, but not many more. You could maybe add a few more if you include great designs within the development classes, but that's not quite the same thing.
But then I don't know that I'd list that many "great" designs in all...

Interestingly you pick and obvious skiff and a non skiff. While I'm not wishing to deliberately be anti skiff, there are few if any selling well and if you now include designs of the past five years which are selling, they are clearly non skiff and more 'traditional' with rocker. In fact picking a few of Paul Hanley's designs such as the K1 and K6 and others, the hulls are not so different in shape to the Firefly.

So is Uffa Fox rather than Bethwaite  having more of an influence in modern dinghy design?


I think some of the current popularity of non-skiff classes can be described in terms of the rush to SMODs having peaked, with resurgance of some traditional classes. People consider the racing they are buying into as much as the appeal of the design itself. Hence Fireballs doing better than Isos. But you would not design a Winder Fireball or Merlin from a blank sheet of paper.
The K1 fills a niche where it has little competition. Seen any Illusions lately?

What makes a 'great' design?
Lots of things, but the RS400 and 600 were a step change at the time, even if they've become technically dated now. In some ways what made them great was not the drawing of the lines, but deciding a specification that would sell well at the time.
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Menace View Drop Down
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Posts: 296 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Menace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Oct 11 at 5:20pm
For what it's worth, I think Melvin and Morelli are on the money at the moment. Agree, Hanley is doing some good stuff at the moment too.
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