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boatshed View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Aug 11 at 4:01pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

As for turtle, it's got to go over in order to turtle and only a total imbecile could do that


Well, it's already gone over.   And turtled.  I guess it will do it again.  Can it be righted alone from turtle ?  Same question I asked about the Vortex. 
Steve
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 11 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by ham4sand

Originally posted by Andymac

 
Or think about a telescopic one. Long when you need it, short when you don't.
 
 
 
are you mental??? when you have that big f**k off kite up and get a little bit of weather heel, tiller loads up with lee helm, boom the telescoping mechanism collapses....
 
Oh! you're not a fan then.
I must confess I've never used one (the Sprint15, which I have recently bought, specifically prohibit them. Perhaps for the reason you cite).
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 11 at 4:14pm
It went over because a 96kilo lard boy decided to take a promenade up the front deck, went for a skatey slide on the carefully prepared slippy deck of his own machination and fell arse over tit, grabbed hold of something to try and save himself and God punished him by sending the lot over.
 He then couldn't use the centreboard to stand on because at that stage it was two bits stuck together and would have snapped if he walked out to the end. It had better come up or it will get left where it lies, it should be a lot easier to deal with than some I could mention, with wide gauge mesh on the racks and if necessary an idiot chord to hold onto I don't see this as a problem.

 This is supposed to be a 'Gentleman Sailors Performance Sailing Device' we Gentlemen do not like to look stupid, nor do we like too much effort, but we like our boats to go fast and we don't want to have to learn all over again when we're already perfectly capable of sailing other stuff.

If perish the thought one might tip over, one expects it to right itself preferably, if that's not possible then a simple process requiring minimum effort is what is required and will be designed into the device - trust me.


Edited by G.R.F. - 27 Aug 11 at 4:37pm
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 11 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by ham4sand

finally, i found a kind of self tyrimming jib on the swift solo site yesterday, im going to look at modifying it for my cherub for some single-handed action,

Worth noting that self trimming jibs have been tried any amount of times on Canoes over the years and always abandoned... If you want to know why go out two handed with your regular crew in the Cherub and try sailing upwind easing the jib with the main on every gust...
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boatshed View Drop Down
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Posts: 457 		Post Options Post Options   Quote boatshed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 11 at 6:00pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

If perish the thought one might tip over, one expects it to right itself preferably, if that's not possible then a simple process requiring minimum effort is what is required and will be designed into the device - trust me.


Have a look at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=655COFngiQA

Yes, I know it's a cat but if you put a float on top of your mast, you could take inspiration and devise a one string, Eze Right device.  
Steve
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simonrh View Drop Down
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Posts: 186 		Post Options Post Options   Quote simonrh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 11 at 6:09pm
[/QUOTE]

And...... can you, on your own, right the boat from turtle ???  Or do you have a lie down waiting for the rescue boat ?


[/QUOTE]

No, no. that is where it is much more on the dinghy end of the spectrum. I always found, the same as the capsize, that if you  bring the windward end up then it lifts fairly easily. There are grab handles under the boat to hang on to if required. If it is struggling to come up because you are too light or there is water in the mast then you can sink a corner like a cat.

There are many more far, far better vortexers than me to give guidance though. I sold mine earlier in the year as I wanted / needed something for more people.
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ham4sand View Drop Down
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Posts: 452 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ham4sand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 11 at 12:25am
Originally posted by JimC

Worth noting that self trimming jibs have been tried any amount of times on Canoes over the years and always abandoned... If you want to know why go out two handed with your regular crew in the Cherub and try sailing upwind easing the jib with the main on every gust...
 
jim, at the moment we have to on the new boat, the jib is flipping huge, this idea is only intended for a bit of single hand playing, where i can still capsize in relatively small gust even with the main fully dumped, and flat wiring!
its more for my curiosity than anything else! :)
thanks for the tip though, what actually goes wrong generally?
 
John Hamilton
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 11 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by ham4sand

thanks for the tip though, what actually goes wrong generally?

Well, I'm not one of the people who's tried it, but I think it would be extremely hard to keep the boat in the groove and driving because you've no reference points.
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ham4sand View Drop Down
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Posts: 452 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ham4sand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 11 at 10:45pm
thats the problem i had first thought of, what with all the "chasing the jib" we do upwind. I reckon its worth a try though, for the novelty if nothing else
John Hamilton
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Hector View Drop Down
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 11 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by boatshed

Have a look at the first few moments of this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-kTmlCxvh8

Stop the movie when the boat is on it's side.  JimC said they are ok to right.   I think this is because they have twin dagger boards.  It is very easy to get from the water to the lower board and then hang on to the upper board.

Your Vtwin has a board in the middle and it will be very hard to get on to.   Unless..... the crafty tunnel under the hull is a useful step !

Woo hoo that was me in the Video. It was unusually sudden - or maybe my reactions are shot and I need a V twin?
Graeme - as you know, I've been following this on facebook, but here are some more thoughts.
  • You'll need to know if things you try have worked, or not, so in the absence of a tune up partner, next time, fit a GPS - better to know relative speeds than speculate.
  • I've always thought the Vortex main (that you're using) is a bit open at the leach - at least on the softish mast used. That looks like it could be a Vortex mast as well and if so, maybe upper stays have stiffened it sideways? Anyway when you do go for a custom rig, consider how you're going to adjust it to allow hardish leach for height in lightwinds and open for higher winds.
  • In stacks of wind, going forward  to grab a new kite sheet is bad news. So get a kite designed to sheet from as far aft as practicable. 
  • Vortex main is not optimised for a jib - improvement available there.
  • It might be very difficult, but it if you take it out in enough wind, it will capsize - simple physics. So, RE Righting it, Vortex is easy to get from turtle, so I dont see why this should be any different. Nonetheless, a righting line and/or flotation may not be a bad idea to start with. And try it in a deliberate lightwind capsize first - not after a  F6 wipeout.
  • Love the idea of inflatable bladder in luff - hoisting and lowering would be an issue but idea has huge potential
  • Dont talk up the speed too much - unless you want a PY of sub 800! Wink
My initial  scepticism is partly removed, but unless it tacks like a dinghy, it may not fulfil one of your wishes  (that you can enjoy close 'tactical' racing. Any comment on how it tacks?  I guess it will need to be compared to the like of an MPS, Contender or Vortex rather than a Laser / RS200.

Well done again for putting your money and time into this.
Keith
29er 661 (with my daughters / nephew)
49er 688 (with Phil P)
RS200 968
Vortex (occasionally)
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