Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 17 May 11 at 10:48am |
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Finish A boat finishes when any part of her hull, or crew or equipment innormal position, crosses the finishing line in the direction of the course from the last mark, either for the first time or after taking a penalty under rule 44.2 or, after correcting an error made at the finishing line, under rule 28.1. According to that definition, on many club courses, a boat would 'finish' before sailing the second lap. Has ISAF become completely divorced from club sailing around the cans? |
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blueboy ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 27 Aug 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 512 |
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Correct. If you read the definition of "finish" in RRS there is no mention of whether or not the correct course has been sailed. "Finishing" is basically some part of the boat crossing the finish line in the correct direction. Sailing the wrong course is not DNF, it is DSQ under RRS 28 ("sailing the course"). I had this come up when I was Club RO last year. A sailor complained (to me) that another boat missed a mark, which I must surely have seen (I didn't) and I should therefore disqualify them (which was not my role). The sailor who missed the mark later RTD. Edited by blueboy - 17 May 11 at 6:17am |
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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Race Officers cannot disqualify a boat - they can only give the penalties laid out in Rule A5, which are limited to incidents at the start or finish line.
If it is alleged that a boat has not sailed the correct course then a hearing is required (see rule 28.1). If the Race Committee does disqualify a boat incorrectly then the boat is entitled to redress because of the incorrect action of the committee. The redress hearing will only be deciding if the RC's action was correct. The competitor should be reinstated. If the RC then protests they would have to explain why the protest is outside the time limit. "Because we don't know the rules" should not be an adequate excuse. Gordon |
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Gordon
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Wouldn't there have to be a protest for DSQ, whereas a boat not completing the course is DNF, whether the course isn't completed because of retirement or because of missing out vital parts of it?
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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asterix ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 01 Aug 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 621 |
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... but rather than being DNF, wouldn't they be DSQ for breaching RRS 28 (assuming they didn't correct ther error)?
in what circumstances do you become DNF rather than DSQ?
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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I think I'd agree that if the RO sees that a boat has sailed the wrong course, then they cannot be counted as a finisher - it is a little like a boat being over the line at the start and just hearing silence at the finish, surely? As has been said, though, wise to take a time, just in case.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Done it myself, it was the crew's fault!
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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When there are no witnesses, judges form their own idea of what happened from each competitors statements, based on their own experience as sailors. This can lead to interesting debates:
at one hearing at a one design keelboat regatta evidence was given that an incident occurred just as one boat was starting to take their spinnaker down - for the cruiser-racing judges this was clear evidence that the boats had not reached the zone, whilst for the keelboat sailors on the panel this was clear evidence that boats had already entered the zone... Gordon |
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Gordon
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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
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The race committee not recording a boat as a finisher when she has finished wouold be grounds for redress, as it is contraryto rule A5. By the time that you have "had a word" with competitor time limit might well have been reached and the RC protest might well be found invalid.
There are ISAF guidelines on what a RC and judges would protest - somewhere in the manuals. Roughly speaking anything that smacks of unfair sailing should be protested (including hitting a mark and sailing on. Increasingly judges are being asked to more pro-active - commonly by signalling that they believe that they have seen an infringement. Any such request from a class association or organising club would be studied. I would advocate informing competitors. Gordon |
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Gordon
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asterix ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 01 Aug 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 621 |
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"I would suggest only going to protest if you have sufficient witnesses"
isn't this a bit of a general problem -particularly for single handers?
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