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Int Canoe variants

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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Int Canoe variants
    Posted: 10 May 11 at 4:48pm
Hi all,

I'm interested in the IC and IAC and notice (late in the day I know) there's now a variant where you can design an IC (no kite?) to a box rule instead of using the Nethercott one-design IC.  I know there are a few Canoe sailors posting here so an explanation of a few things would help...

i) What sort of money gets you a decent non-assy IC?
ii) What sort of money gets you a decent IAC?
iii) What sort of money would be needed for a development IC?
iv) Are IACs as tricky to sail as they look?

Basically, what should a newbie to the class be looking for when buying?
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 11 at 5:27pm
http://www.intcanoe.org/forum2/viewforum.php?f=20

My take

You can pick up a good enough to learn one design IC for between £1,000 and £2,000 depending on fit out and detail gear (plastic spars/new rags towards the top end). Older boats are available for less but tend to need enough updating that the total expenditure is in the same sort of order. There's an oldish but well sorted boat (238) currently available for £1450 which has the rags and spars and has recently embarassed many newer ones.
Recent (ie foam Sandwich Razorback or equivalent) go for more money - anything up to £8,000 I guess.

ACs tend to start at around £3,000 simply because few older boats have been converted and run up to £8,000-10,000. With ACs its probably most important to get a boat that's very well sorted.
The carbon foam sandwich one designs from Razorback et al seem to have a more or less indefinite life in the hull shell: the minimum weight is generous and the build quality outstanding so the main difference with older ones is the degree of wear in gear/ropes sail development and so on.

Boats to the Development rule don't have kites will all be under 3 years old (well except mine which is a modded one design) and few are on the market. Price will depend a lot on materials and so on. I would guess region of £8,000 would be reasonable for a pro built foam boat. At the top of the range the 2010 North American Champion is on sale for "after the worlds" at $24,000usd + any import taxes with a good selection of spares and is of quite awesome, not to mention intimidating build quality...

As tricky to sail as they look... It depends on how difficult they look I guess. An IC isn't that difficult a boat to get in and sail in moderate weather. Any number of people at my club have jumped in mine and gone for a sail in F2 or F3 without too many capsizes. Tacking in Force 5 on the other hand needs practice and natural talent.

I think the biggest thing you need to look for, and this is especially true of an AC, is that everything should work. If all the elastic has stretched and the blocks are tired it will be about ten times as difficult to sail as one that is thoroughly sorted. A good idea to try and organise a "will I like an IC" sail with someone in the class. Again it needs to be a sorted boat because an unsorted one will put you off...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 May 11 at 5:35pm
I owned an old neathercot for a brief spell and it was a joy to sail, so well balanced and elegant.  As Jim says its not 'that' hard to sail in a nice breeze, but in big wind tacking becomes more of an artform.  The AC on the other hand i found relatively easy in light winds but an absolute animal in a F4.  I guess like any hp dinghy it needs time and commitment.  I would deffinately buy one in the future and you seem to be able to pick one up for around £3k now.  One thing to be mindfull of is the size of the ODIC and DC fleet is fairly small now in the UK but much bigger internationally (where the AC is small) you can always sail an AC as an IC, thats what my mate did on restricted waters.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote chrishampe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 11 at 6:35am
I bought GBR 238 in February 2008 as a newbie to the IC class. My first few sails were in force 4-5 and at first my only problems were when tacking. After attending the dinghy show I picked up some tips and started to get the the hang of the boat. By the time I got to the nationals after just 5 months of IC sailing I won one race and finished third overall, just missing out on second with a bad final race. In short if you practice, come to the opens and pick up tips from the class experts and you can be on pace in no time
To me the AC rigged boats look harder to tack as the self tacking jib gives less control through the tacks. As for the newer boats They are much less forgiving than the one designs, when I first sailed my box rule boat I capsized when I would have been OK in the old boat.

Now for the advert  Wink

GBR238 is available for sale more details and pics here:- http://www.intcanoe.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1296&p=7199#p7199

Chris Hampe
IC GBR 308 & IC GBR 238
Chris Hampe
IC GBR 340
Monkey's Uncle

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alistair Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 11 at 1:27pm
Hi
The Canoe is a bit tricky to tack but other than that its not too hard a boat to sail. The AC (by all accounts, not sailed one) when set up correctly is more forgiving than the rs700 / musto skiff. Costs, well a new AC I think is around £15000, a new new rules boat seems to be around 14000. I have seen some very good AC's for around the £4000 to £6,000 mark, as yet very few new rules boats around, but you can build your own which would cost a lot less, but takes some time, I built one which Chris now has . For its replacement I have gone to Andy Patterson at bloodaxe boats for a hull and I am fitting it out my self.
The canoe is the most rewarding boat I have sailed, some times frustrating, but even when I drift away from the class I always end up back
Alistair
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 11 at 4:29pm
Ta, forum link most useful and the other points too! 
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getafix View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 11 at 9:38am
dumb question; what stops the plank shooting back into the boat/across the boat, when you're perched at one end/off one end?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 11 at 9:51am
Friction
12ft Skiff - Gordon Keeble and the Furry Fly-by
AC - GBR271 - Whoosh
B49 - Island Alchemy
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 11 at 11:02am
Its deliberately designed to be a slightly loose fit in the carriage so that when you place your weight on the end it  jams in position. But when your weight is removed it will slide easily from side to side.

Works well up to a certain lean angle at which point it lets go... but to be honest on a well built seat that normally only happens when things are going wrong any way.

Ian
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ifoxwell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 11 at 11:08am
O and one more thing I'm not sure i go along with the get a test sail idea. Its so unlike any other dinghy your likely to have sailed it will all just feel strange and awkward.

I would say if your serious then just buy one. They are as pleasing to sail as every one says its just that you wont get very much of that pleasure the first time you sail it. 

But buy one sail it a few times to get the hang of it then the first time things come together and you hang your arse off the end of the plank with everything cranked on and find your self creaming to windward you'll be hooked.

They arn't perfect boats (which is why i don't sail one at the moment, but I will do again in the future i'm sure) but they do what they do better than just about anything else out there so if its the boat for you then you wont be disappointed.... just that you wont find that out from a brief test sail!

ian
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