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AV how will you vote?
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Poll Question: The Alternate Voting System how will you vote
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
18 [41.86%]
22 [51.16%]
3 [6.98%]
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tryinghard View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 May 11 at 3:25pm
Whether the result is yes or no it won't be representative of the country because it is unlikely that there will be anything like even a miserable 50% turnout.

If only 40% bother to vote then surely the majority favour a system where you don't have/need to vote?
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 3:00pm
Well I've voted and in the end went yes, I guess just as a protest at living all these years in such a safe Tory seat, not that it will make a blind bit of difference, they'll still win even under AV.
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Roger View Drop Down
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Posts: 524 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by mike10626

People seem to be missing the significance of the First Preference in the AV system. It allows you to put first the candidate or party you think is best and this result is recorded for posperity.  From this information we should be able to tell how many people really support the two main parties.  If this turns out to be less than the 75% they currently muster between them there is a compelling argument to go to the next step - if not the overall result shouldn't be that different anyway. 
 
I don't think anybody is missing the significance of the first preference, it's just that it's not that significant under AV.
We can be sure that the majority of constituencies, will go to at least the 2nd preferance for some.
 
 
Originally posted by mike10626

Having to vote tactically for your second and third preferences is probably less complex than the current system where we have to vote tactically anyway with your only cross.  How do you work that one out with all the mis-information that appears about who is second in your constituency?
 
 
How can it be simpler than just selecting your prefered candidate?
Currently some vote tactically in a few constituencies, but not many, AV would be asking everybody to vote tactically, although of course you don't have to make more than one choice!
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 2:51pm
Originally posted by JimC

To me it would seem ill advised to vote in favour of a system that you thought was worse than the current one in the hope that it might get changed in the future to something better.
 
 
You know what Jim, we agree on something. It would be daft to vote in a worse system, I happen to think AV is a better sytem than what we've got....it's just not the best alternative imo.
 
Edit:
Whatever happens the parties will put a spin on the result in a way that suits their world view....Guaranteed!


Edited by GK.LaserII - 05 May 11 at 2:57pm
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mike10626 View Drop Down
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Posts: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mike10626 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 2:40pm
The question of the ballot paper is: -
 
"At present, the UK uses the 'first past the post' system to elect MPs to the House of Commons. Should the 'alternative vote' system be used instead?"
 
I would interpret a No vote as you want to stick to FPTP.  If the wording was more vague you might be able to argue you wanted some other system, but they seem to have made the wording explicitly be almost an either/or type question.
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by GK.LaserII

Originally posted by mike10626

  If there is a No vote today the whole issue will be swept under the carpet again for a generation! 

My thoughts exactly, I don't think we've been presented with the best alternative system but there will not be another chance to change things for years. A no vote will also be conveniently interpreted as a public desire to maintain the status quo, a yes vote indicates a desire to change and opens up the possibility of further change. 


Don't see the logic in that at all. It could equally be said that a No vote , especially if there's not a huge margin , could indicate the public want change, but not that change, whereas a Yes vote means that system will prevail indefinitely because that's what the public voted for... To me it would seem ill advised to vote in favour of a system that you thought was worse than the current one in the hope that it might get changed in the future to something better.
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Posts: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mike10626 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 1:46pm
People seem to be missing the significance of the First Preference in the AV system. It allows you to put first the candidate or party you think is best and this result is recorded for posperity.  From this information we should be able to tell how many people really support the two main parties.  If this turns out to be less than the 75% they currently muster between them there is a compelling argument to go to the next step - if not the overall result shouldn't be that different anyway. 
 
Having to vote tactically for your second and third preferences is probably less complex than the current system where we have to vote tactically anyway with your only cross.  How do you work that one out with all the mis-information that appears about who is second in your constituency?
 
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Posts: 524 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

I don't think it will make much difference in the long run.
But after a few elections, maybe people will change the way they pick second choices. A lot more convoluted tactics are possible, but if a certain 'centre' party are hoping to be everybody's second choice, I think (and hope) they will be swiftly disappointed!
 
Pretty much hit the nail on the head there, it's the tactics of 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc choices that make AV so complex, parties will "compute" the best possible options for them to win a particular seat, and campaign at length for voters to use the tactical options ( the tactics will be different in each and every seat), it is nothing like as simple are listing the candidates in order of preferance that is so widely stated.
 
 
For what it's worth I shall be voting NO, I believe our electoral system should be straight forward and simple, I have never failed to vote, ever, in any election I have been entitled to vote in, and I will continue to do so, it's a right I cherish and always will. I encourage others to vote too, but always accept that their right is to not vote should they so choose, although I would argue that if you dont vote you have no right to complain.
 
 
 
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Posts: 2899 		Post Options Post Options   Quote alstorer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Originally posted by mike10626

Don't fool yourselves you will ever get a chance to vote on the voting system again.  If there is a No vote today the whole issue will be swept under the carpet again for a generation! 
 
How did we get from the expenses scandal 2 years ago to total apathy today?  Can't anyone see that voting against the majority of current MP's might make a little difference.
 
But why vote for a system that will be expensive to implement and won't really change anything.
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Posts: 72 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mike10626 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 May 11 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Contender443

Originally posted by mike10626

Don't fool yourselves you will ever get a chance to vote on the voting system again.  If there is a No vote today the whole issue will be swept under the carpet again for a generation! 
 
How did we get from the expenses scandal 2 years ago to total apathy today?  Can't anyone see that voting against the majority of current MP's might make a little difference.
 
But why vote for a system that will be expensive to implement and won't really change anything.
The only people saying we need expensive voting machines are the NO campaign!  The other expenses sound to me like the cost of having a democracy.  Dictatorships always offer a cost saving on the basic process of government.
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