New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: V Twin
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

V Twin
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 123124125126127 142>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
RS400atC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 04 Dec 08
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: V Twin
    Posted: 05 Feb 11 at 1:28pm
Originally posted by rich96

I know its off topic a bit but the Laser bashing is all a bit daft.
 
The boat provides great racing on all sizes and types of water and performs well in all wind strengths.
 
It still must be the cheapest class in which you can be competetive.
 
.....
 
 


Is that true?
Competitive life of a hull? Short!
Competitive life of sails? Short.

It is a great boat that provides good club racing for lots of people, but the serious players have to change their boats pretty often. Older hulls get progressively softer and uncompetitive.

It would probably be cheaper in the long run to be competitive at national level in a foam sandwich boat like a Solo.
At international level, Lasers are cheap to get into, but that's a level of competitiveness I don't aspire to. And buying the kit is only part of the budget of course.

Another way of looking at it is 'how many opportunities for good racing do you get, vs annual cost', Lasers must score pretty well on that for club sailors, loads of events at all levels. Depends on what value you place on various events of course.
Back to Top
rich96 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 20 Jan 05
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 596 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 11 at 12:37pm
I know its off topic a bit but the Laser bashing is all a bit daft.
 
The boat provides great racing on all sizes and types of water and performs well in all wind strengths.
 
It still must be the cheapest class in which you can be competetive.
 
The rig is not as bad as people make out - just because its not fully battened or mylar it gets slated. Its actually pretty effective and allows the boat to sail well in drifters to very high winds.
 
There aren't many hiking single handers that are much quicker - despite the 'poor rig'.
 
We all moan that Laser rip us off for sails and spares but all in all its pretty cheap racing.
 
There arent many other classes where you can buy an old hull, clean it, refurb the foils, change a few ropes, get a new sail and be pretty much on the pace for club/opens.
 
You suddenly realise how difficult it is to initially get competetive, and stay there, when you change classes from the Laser. Theres usually a lot more fiddling and way more expense involved.
 
If you dont like the boat - dont sail it - simple.
 
So stop giving it a hard time - it still does what it was designed to do brilliantly.
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
Inland sea View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 19 Jul 07
Location: Rugby
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 290 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 11 at 11:03pm
GRF Vtwin help is at hand right here

In fairness good luck Clap
RS300 426 18' SkiffTango Musto 051
B14 644
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 11 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by tickler

It seems a little harsh to wish failure on Mr Cockerill but I could never see his figures adding up. I also wish GRF luck although I think he is designing for a market of one.

In my opinion the trouble with Laser is the ancient rig and although they are such a successfull international class surely it would be so much better with a Byte C2 type rig. That would help to drag all those old hulls out of the nettles and get them on the water. We don't need a new basic singlehander just update the old market leader.
I wasn't really wishing failure on Steve, who seems like a fine chap, but hoping that the class that is arguably the world's #1 would get the support it deserves (IMHO) rather than suffering something that seemed to be a takeover attempt.  As you say, add-ons to the Laser could update it while building on the huge base the class has (although personally I feel a new rig may not be worth the inevitable turmoil) and the hulls do last okay.

Something like the V Twin could get more energy into the area (adult's performance boats) that may really need it.  We're losing too many people to yachts, perhaps because the average adult weekend sailor may find a skiff or 505 type too technical or difficult to sail.



Edited by Chris 249 - 04 Feb 11 at 11:03pm
Back to Top
Hughph View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 13 Oct 10
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 324 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hughph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 11 at 9:30pm
I'm really looking forward to seeing some photos really once it begins to take shape! Shame GRF never sent me the spec to read..... Oh well. 

Twin boards will make launching and recovery interesting- unless they are pivoting and have one up and one down line together.... 
Back to Top
GybeFunny View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work


Joined: 27 Oct 09
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 403 		Post Options Post Options   Quote GybeFunny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 11 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by tickler

It seems a little harsh to wish failure on Mr Cockerill but I could never see his figures adding up. I also wish GRF luck although I think he is designing for a market of one.

In my opinion the trouble with Laser is the ancient rig and although they are such a successfull international class surely it would be so much better with a Byte C2 type rig. That would help to drag all those old hulls out of the nettles and get them on the water. We don't need a new basic singlehander just update the old market leader.

Would it really get old boats out the nettles or would it mean more boats end up in the nettles as their owners realise they will have to pay lots of money to make it competitive again? I fear the latter! I am quite excited about the RPX but it does seem to be direct competition for the Rooster 8.1 rig.

The V-twin looks good, it is great that GRF is taking the gamble as it takes people thinking outside the box to help evolve everything else. It doesnt appeal to me but thats not to say some spin-off/learning from it wont end up in/on some boat I own in the future. I hope it works out!
Back to Top
tickler View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Jun 07
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 895 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 11 at 12:41pm
Why would laser have to do it? If Rooster took the rig proposed for project x and modified it for  laser hull it would not cost that much. An alternative class could be born which would grow over the years and engulf the original one. And do Laser hulls really deteriorate that much? A 20 year old Byte won the Nationals last year and that is just a polyester lay up.

Regarding V-tin I suppose twin boards demand twin rudders.
Back to Top
laser193713 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 13 May 09
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 889 		Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 11 at 11:54am
I would agree that the laser needs updating, but i think it would kill it! not because of the concept, but because you just know that laser would charge a grand for a new fancy sail and another grand for the carbon bits to go with it!  Plus there are so many modern alternatives that its not harder to find a nicer boat at a price that would be cheaper than upgrading an old laser with new parts.  Throwing any money at an old laser is a waste, the hulls go soft and the new bits instantly lose their value as spares.

As for the v-twin i would be interested to see a working prototype.  I think that is the only safe way of knowing if it has any potential.  I still maintain that it should have twin daggers and probably twin rudders.  How about semi sinking hulls to allow it to be righted easily? if this is going to be aimed at any sort of market other than an enthusiastic designer then it is going to need some good USPs to make it different to the competition not just in how it sails but in how can be managed. 
Back to Top
tickler View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Jun 07
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 895 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 11 at 11:37am
It seems a little harsh to wish failure on Mr Cockerill but I could never see his figures adding up. I also wish GRF luck although I think he is designing for a market of one.

In my opinion the trouble with Laser is the ancient rig and although they are such a successfull international class surely it would be so much better with a Byte C2 type rig. That would help to drag all those old hulls out of the nettles and get them on the water. We don't need a new basic singlehander just update the old market leader.
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 11 at 10:40am
Said it before, I'll say it again....

I'll be glad if the Project X goes nowhere.  People love to hate the Laser but it's the most successful dinghy in our sport (Opti apart).  Why knife something in the back when it's working so well around the world?  Surely any reasonable sport would be able to agree to have ONE truly international adult's piece of equipment, rather than 50 different ones sailed in just a few countries.

There just doesn't seem to be any sense in attacking the class that IS working, when so many other sectors are dwindling.  It's the adult's high performance crewed boats that need fixing up, not the Laser/Solo section of the market - that's the strongest section of the adult market these days.

The Project X seemed to be aimed at "healing" the healthiest part of the market in a way that could only disrupt it, when other parts of the market are in dire need of strong medicine.

About the V Twin - there's been some big boats with that hull shape.  The only one I saw in action was a moderate performer and went into the shed years ago to revert to a conventional shape.

Peter Milne had a big Fireball development with twin bows, not twin sterns, that seemed to be an interesting idea.  But anything that could get some renewed interest in scows could be a good thing.


Edited by Chris 249 - 04 Feb 11 at 11:24am
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 123124125126127 142>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy