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Cirrus Icon Development

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Cirrus Icon Development
    Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 10:40am
Yes, I wasn't saying the Scorpion was quick by design, more by accident in that the hydrodynamics benefitted from the easy-build considerations. Ents & Wayfarers might have been more pleasing to the eye in those days, but I doubt their bows are quicker.
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I luv Wight View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 10:36am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

What was the thinking with the chines, I wonder?
 
I've always thought that the Scorpion's low chine taken right forward - shedding water, generating lift at transition - was a reason why such a narrow/heavy/underpowerd boat was so quick for its length.


One of the reasons for the low chines on the Scorpion is that the boat was originally designed with home-builds in mind. The bottom skin panels are quite thick plywood, so the low chines mean that the ply doesn't have to get too much bending/twisting/double curvature.
Lots of volume low down, more vertical topsides is good too Smile


Edited by I luv Wight - 05 Nov 10 at 10:36am

http://www.bloodaxeboats.co.uk
Andy P
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 10:13am
What was the thinking with the chines, I wonder?
 
I've always thought that the Scorpion's low chine taken right forward - shedding water, generating lift at transition - was a reason why such a narrow/heavy/underpowerd boat was so quick for its length.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 9:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Nov 10 at 9:57am
Latest progress on the hull plug.  Note how it is double chined at the back, single chined in the middle and unchined at the front:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 10 at 10:24pm

I took the prototype Icon out singlehanded today at Burghfield.  It was every bit as good as I hoped and remembered.  It really is absolutely fantastic!   

It had a North jib that doesn't sit as close to the deck as it perhaps should, and a Hyde main that is a little long in the leach (leading to a droopy boom), but even like this, it is a rocket ship.
I honestly don't think I've ever sailed a boat that accelerates so smoothly, both in gusts and out of tacks (if that's legal?!).  The production boat, with fully sorted rig and controls should suprise a great many people with just how fast and controllable it is.

A couple of little details that I liked:

An ingeniously jib pole set up, which I can't begin to describe but is probably old hat in Merlins, and saved me losing the jib pole over the side while goosewinging!  It is actually very simple, but still to complex for me to describe!

The jib halyard system. The jib zips up the forestay with the halyard hidden inside the luff zip and cleated to a hidden cleat inside the zip at the tack.  The tail is then stowed in a little pocket in the jib.  Apparently similar to 49ers etc (except they use hanks not a zip, I think) and very neat.

All in all I had a great time and was delighted to find the Icon really was as good as I remembered.  I can't wait for the real thing, which promises to be just brilliant!

For those interested, I have put more detail in the ICON Yahoo Group -  here.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Oct 10 at 11:15am
The 'hybrid' NS14 test-bed had less volume and was both narrower and shorter than ICON however it coped well with a wide variety of crew weights in informal racing.  The key is the very adaptable carbon rig - if you set it up correctly to your weight and use the standard controls.  We injected more volume to extend the crew weight capability but the rig is very similar to the hybrids rig - however mast wil be a bit more raked, the main slightly smaller and the jib a bit bigger.  Most of the extra hull length went in front of the mast to change this sail balance - we are not restricted by a development class limits now.  This keeps the centre of effort low and allows a larger offwind jib projection on the 'semi-automatic' jib stick on the opposite side to the main.  It is not like the N12's as it would have to be very long indeed and our version stows along either side the boom.  However it is very simple, permanenetly attached and imposisble to lose over the side.

I think Peaky is about right on 'ideal' weight but the very light stayed carbon rig will extend the 'ideal' range further than could ever be the case with an alloy one.

Funnily enough Moo when my kids were a bit bigger than your daughter we got a 200 but it was soon obvious that my son could not play the spinnaker in breeze and we were simply not prepared to wait a couple of years so quickly switched to a Tasar about 10 or 12 years ago -  the years are very valuable when they are young.  Anyway - fantastic boat, opened my eyes as to what was possible with such a 'simple' set-up and partly now why we are developing ICON.  We could sail it in breeze very quickly and it was 'right' for us at that time - ICON is intended to have a wide weight range and I believe we have done all the right things to make this possible.

Mike L. (Cirrus Raceboats)    
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

Mike- any indication as of yet for the minimum weight for a benign pond?  

(my daughter will be 3 early next year and I've been looking at your developments with a view to the medium/longer term... )
 
James,
 
Neither the new hull nor latest rig have been tried yet, so its a bit early to say, but I imagine that at the extreme light end the minimum weight would be about the same as the min weight for a 200 - what's that, 17 stone perhaps?  You wouldn't be fully competitive in any kind of breeze obviously, but the lack of kite makes it more child friendly and it would be fine on a gentle summer's day.
 
At the other extreme, with the bigger hull, it can also carry more weight than a 200.  I suspect the ideal crew weight will be somewhere between a 200 and 400 sized team.


Edited by Peaky - 29 Oct 10 at 8:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 5:41pm
Mainsheet .....

ICON standard issue will be 'rear plus off the boom at front of cockpit' but it is not an issue we are going to get bogged down over.  If you want a 'traditional' rear sheeting system it will be allowed and conversion between these systems relative pence  to change.  It is a SMOD but  this sort of thing will be 'free range' as it costs very little to switch.  

Similarly - you can have a thwart if you want one ... it will be a standard option.  However it is not critical for the structure and so those who do not want one can simply not order/fit one.

Mike L.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote The Moo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Oct 10 at 11:47am
Mike. You mention in your earlier post some flexibility regarding mainsheet arrangement. Would that go as far as allowing transom main? I am guessing this would appeal to potential National 12 and Enterprise converts, particularly the pond sailors who are tacking every 30 seconds or so........
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