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Too tight for a sym |
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RS400atC 
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Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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 Topic: Too tight for a symPosted: 15 Aug 10 at 11:38pm |
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I think it's hard to formulate exact rules. Time on the water is the only aid to judgement. Sometimes, when the wind is not steady, the kite will be doing you no good 80% of the time, maybe even slowing you marginally. But the other 20% of the time, the kite helps enough that the overall gain is significant. So tough out the 80%, if you're convinced about the 20%. Go for speed mostly, and be confident that you can drop the kite on a reach without stopping dead, i.e with the helm hiking hard and the crew not to leeward. Aim to sort your boat handling so changes of plan can be taken in your stride rather than looking like a fight between helm, crew and boat. Sometimes it pays to ride the gusts for speed, then two sail to the mark. Other times you are better off going high early and arrivng at the mark in good shape for the next leg. Will a burst of speed get you clear air and tactical space, or get you into the lee of other boats? If in doubt go high early, then set the kite. |
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Garry
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Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 10 at 9:48pm |
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Try pole higher (quiet a lot compared to some other boats)
and twinner on a bit. |
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Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 10 at 5:30pm |
There are a couple of small flaws in your theorising: firstly the sheet is not on the centreline of the boat and secondly the clew is not sheeted to a point exactly symmettrical around the mast to the tack. Only if both those were true would your theory stand up. [later]Here's a nice shot of a pole kite boat at speed with the pole on the forestay... As you can see the pole is smack on the centreline and the clew is about a foot and a half off and there's no shortage of drive... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dM2V8OaxE0 Edited by JimC |
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Contender 541
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Joined: 05 Dec 05 Location: Burton on Trent Online Status: Offline Posts: 1402 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 10 at 1:36pm |
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That's, shall we say, a very suprising rule of thumb and not one I could recommend...QUOTE] Basic law of physics is that if the force of attack is at 90 degrees to the direction of motion, then it is *theoretically* doing nothing but pushing - in this case - the boat over or sliding it downhill. It is for this reason that in the 5oh I can be 3 sail flat wiring in only 5 knots (and I do not dissapear when I turn sideways I can promise you) The cut of the spinnaker can and does have huge influence on just how tight you can go, but to quote myself with one emphasis - as a General rule when the pole is on the forestay....... Perhaps I should have added hard (on the forestay) |
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When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss
Crew on 505 8780 |
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rogerd
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Joined: 25 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1076 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 10:15pm |
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The Fireball kite is often cut very flat to allow them to race tight reaches. It is certainly a lot flatter than the geeps.
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timeintheboat
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Joined: 01 Feb 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 615 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 10 at 8:36pm |
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Thanks for the comment - the recent problem was in
handicap racing and the only sym. So judging the angle of the boats ahead down tidal reaches - was the info I was using to make the call. Once the damn thing was up the temptation is to leave it up. I have tried the trick of letting the halyard go to hide the kite behind the jib, perhaps it's rose tinted glass that makes me think it was more effective with the Fireball and GP than the Lark, or perhaps it's the spinny downhaul with the chute that is making some difference. |
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Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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JimC
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Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Posted: 12 Aug 10 at 8:06am |
That's, shall we say, a very suprising rule of thumb and not one I could recommend... Its just a question of learning when the boat is over pressed, but the smart money is that if its jammed in as hard as it will go its doing no good. In general folks do seem to hang on to kites too long... It will depend on boat and nine billion other variable, but I reckon a foot of kite sheet to play with is a reasonable start point. Remember in most performance boats you'll be going faster on a perfect direction two sail reach than you will overpressed and struggling with the kite, because thetwo sail rig is far less draggy. So my rule of thumb is if its a hoist leg I would start by sailing two sail just as fast as you can. If you are climbing upwind of the mark then don't worry, just carry on until you are confident that its a really hot reach with the kite up and hoist then. If its a drop leg then the reverse applies - don't try and struggle up to the mark, blast off downwind as the gusts take you, and drop when its a real blitz two sailer to the mark or a beam reach, whichever comes first. You'll find its amazing how much ground you can make back to windward in the lulls anyway... Edited by JimC |
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winging it
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Joined: 22 Mar 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3958 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 10 at 9:31pm |
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the other thing is, it may be that the kite you could get away with tight reaches in with the fireball was cut for just such a purpose. The kite you have now may be cut differently and so make it more difficult.
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the same, but different...
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fireballdan
Newbie 
Joined: 19 Jul 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 10 at 6:11pm |
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i would say if its not up to start with and your unsure,
leave it down. have you tried dropping the head right at the end of the leg to get into the mark on tight reaches? that might work and its a good way to get water at the gybe mark |
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patj
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Joined: 16 Jul 04 Location: Wiltshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 643 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 10 at 1:22pm |
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We have done the same thing in both the Lark and the Merlin for some years. Generally when the pole's on the jib luff and I'm having trouble keeping it full, then it's time to drop, yet the helm keeps saying "just hang onto it" so we always go on too long. I've had the pole on the forestay and the guy eased out so the kite foot is a couple of feet further out still and it's just silly. It's not something that is quantifiable, but with more experience now, I look at the wind angles and how other people are doing and how much the wind has shifted since the last lap on that leg before deciding whether to give the kite a go or throw the teddies out and insist it's too tight a reach! Edited by patj |
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