2010 Portsmouth Numbers - Now Out

Originally posted by Skiffybob All looks pretty sensible to me. After all most development classes do get faster, and I suggest tht the B14 adjustment reflects the extra performance from the carbon mast. One that sands out to me is the Cherub. I would have expected that to drop. I would have thought that something around the low 900s would be more representitive of a modern one.

But are enough Cherubs, sailing in handicap events?? I'm not sure....

Jon

Originally posted by Granite I had also expected a larger drop for the Cherub, when I did some calculations a few years ago I got around 930, however there were very large variations even between  boats of similar ages. It is still good that the RYA have included more classes in the list, and they do recommend that the numbers for development boats and those marked with an E are adjusted depending on the age of the boats.

I was sailing locally on 925 a few years ago, '97 rules and was about the same speed as the local 29ers ( which weren't national champ level ) seemed OK at the time.
The new boats 'should' be faster.
But there are not that many cherubs doing the club racing for hcap returns, and there are a lot of different spec boats about, so the 950 is a reasonable average I suppose. ( ie about 10  fast boats to the latest rules, + lots of other older 'tubs' )

However the cherub performance was ( and still is ) very variable depending on wind, wave, size of course, tides etc, much more variable than most other boats. -
sometimes winning by tens of minutes , and sometimes last by tens of minutes .

Hmmm so both the boats i currently sail get better handicaps just in time for me to sell them, sounds fair to me!

Hi everyone, glad the PY numbers this year seem to be going down quite well (mostly). You may have noticed that the RYA has done away with TN numbers and replaced them with E numbers for "Experimental". Basically, the thinking is that these numbers will be based on the web based returns and will be more reactive, i.e. reviewed more often than the yearly TN's were. As it states at the top of the PY list updates to these will be available to any club signed up and returning through the new web based system. This means that the E numbers really are experimental and should be viewed as such. Clubs should definitely be amending these rather than sticking to them exactly. The clubs using them also need to register with the PY website and get returns uploaded so that these numbers will hopefully stabilise quickly. Once these become stable and reach enough numbers of returns they will be considered for allocation to an RN number.

The idea of the RYA was to be able to react more quickly to new classes, and changes in some classes which we all know swing wildly depending on condition or age of boat. Hope that helps to explain the thinking behind the E numbers a little more.

As Bas said in his post if you arent happy with the numbers this time around the best way you can help is to make sure your club is returning ther data and preferably try to get them to use the PY website which caters for calculating local handicap variations the instant you upload race data to it.

Any probs please ask (please note I dont work for the RYA, just gave up my free time to help on the PYAG to try to help make the PY system as fair as possible).

Originally posted by Skiffybob It's not supposed to be an "average" across ages and spes of boats though, it's supposed to reflect a fair handicap for a current boat.

Agreed but if the club has no well sailed modern boats on their turf their data is almost inevitably going to point to a higher number.

Club handicappers with Cherubs in their fleet should be pointed at this page. We (I was involved in creating the list in a past life) tried to make it as easy as possible for a club handcapper to work out what sort of Cherub spec they were looking at.
http://www.sailingsource.com/cherub/test/doku.php/tech/handi caps
Phil, are you confident enough yet to suggest a current number?

Edited by JimC