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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Mar 10 at 2:25pm
Hector, I sail at Whitefriars, in the Cotswold water park - the club Demo Dave learned to sail at!
The onus surely needs to be on the competitor to sign on clearly. In the Laser's case, people should write "radial" when signing on - maybe the RS100 class needs to just call themselves RS100 "big rig" and RS100 "small rig" and get the returns officers at clubs to send that distinction to the RYA at the end of the year, so that is what comes out on the RYA listings. Or RS100 lite for the small rig...
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asterix View Drop Down
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Posts: 621 		Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 10 at 2:07pm

Hi Paul

I think we all understand the issues, but it is too soon to argue/predict/'know' that the two PYs of the RS100 will or should become one (either through sailor choice to all use only one rig, or by coincidence that the small and big rigs when taken over a range of conditions and races actually give the same average performance). 

The inconvenience of handling different PYs for one boat class during and after club races and over race series are real, but they arn't that difficult.  As you say, other classes have several PYs and so it is not as though the 100 will be causing any new problems by having two.

The boat was conceived as having two PYs and that is what we've bought in to.

Dave

 



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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 10 at 1:46pm
Hector,

There are a reasonable group of clubs who allow helms to sail different boats or different rigs in a series. Witihn sailwave this can be handled as there is an option to input a PY specific to a race rather than using the default for the class of boat identified at the beginning. These results have to be taken out though when you load the series into PYS/Sailracer, as it cant handle the change currently and sees it as an adjustment of the baots PY rather than a completely seperate boat.

Anyway in clubs like this it is often down to the competitor signing on with the correct details but we are all human and often these are corrected by the more observant race officers who know the boats. Its then not uncommon for the competitor to phone the sailing sec to complain that his result in R8 used the wrong PY.

Its this issue in particular that I'd like to avoid in the future. Sure boats like the Sprint 15 ( Dart 15) have multiple modes but we cant change that now, but I think its wise to learn from more modern dinghies like the 300 where ultimately its one PY.
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Posts: 19 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Martin Wadhams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 10 at 11:56am

Look forward to seeing many of you at the Dinghy Show this weekend.

We're going to announce a sponsor for the first RS100 UK Nationals (and Y&Y forum followers will enjoy finding out who it is) on Saturday at 4pm - on the RS stand.

Please come along for a glass of our bubbly. Should I be worried that the boys are talking me into making this a habit....?  
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Hector View Drop Down
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Hector Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 10 at 1:21am

Originally posted by Rupert

We are exactly like that, Womble. It used to be you could only sail one boat, but we had few enough people qualifying as it was.

And so are we Womble  / Rupert.

Would be interested to know which clubs you're both from. I certainly don't think you can rely on the ood identifying an RS 100A from an RS 100B - getting the times accurately with numbers right is enough of a challenge to most.

At our club (and any other using Sailwave or similar), the sailing / results sec enters say Laser 123456 and then the PY - either Radial PY or Full rig the first time they race in a season. Then that's the PY that Laser then gets for the entire year. We also have to sign on for the days racing and for instance, the Vortexs have to put either std or Asym to denote whether they're flying a kite or not. Again however the OOD just makes sure he gets the sail number as a boat crosses the line - sailwave does the rest. Only catch is when (very rarely) there are 2 boats with same number (at our club we have RS800 1048 and Vortex 1048). Then the OOD does need to spot which is which.

If a radial uses a full rig they have to declare the bigger sail and they get the lower PY. Its really not that difficult. I don't see why the RS100 (8 or 10) would be any different.

 

 
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asterix View Drop Down
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Posts: 621 		Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 11:10pm
stupid question, but can you reef a 100 sail?
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Merlinboy View Drop Down
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by Andymac

Originally posted by chrisg

Urr Rich you should add that if you do choose to use the different PY (we dont want to discourage anyone from sailing in any conditions) you get a different set of results for that PY as yu would if you used a different boat.

That is pretty much how it works at our club with the different laser rigs (rightly or wrongly).

I predominantly sail a full rig, but on occasions when wind speed >F4-5, I might choose a radial rig which I can actually get upwind faster and more efficiently than the full rig with which I am overpowered, and am less likely to make an unforced error/swim downwind/gybing; They count as 2 seperate boats on the series results.

The only issue for me is, if I need one more counting result in the full rig, I am sometimes obliged to use it in order to bank a result rather than have a more 'enjoyable' sail in the radial. I certainly wouldn't mind on the odd occasion I sailed the radial, for it to count on my full rig result by applying the full rig PY (which is about a 1 minute difference over an hour race)...But could that system be used unfairly tactically?

Am I right in thinking that other boats with alternative rig sizes (i.e. RS300) could swap sizes with impunity and other (non strict OD) boats could change their mast/sail configurations..?

Certainly you cannot rely on OOD's to spot the subtle differences in rig sizes, other than to record the sail number/finish and leave the onus on the sailor to make a declaration if different PY's are applied.

You can change your rig ONCE a year according to the class rules for the 300.

Thing is with the 300 its not just a different sail, but different mast section (which is BLOODY expensive) with very little difference in performance so not worth bothering with, you can also reef the 300 sail if you need to.
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Andymac View Drop Down
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Posts: 852 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Andymac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 10:38pm

Originally posted by chrisg

Urr Rich you should add that if you do choose to use the different PY (we dont want to discourage anyone from sailing in any conditions) you get a different set of results for that PY as yu would if you used a different boat.

That is pretty much how it works at our club with the different laser rigs (rightly or wrongly).

I predominantly sail a full rig, but on occasions when wind speed >F4-5, I might choose a radial rig which I can actually get upwind faster and more efficiently than the full rig with which I am overpowered, and am less likely to make an unforced error/swim downwind/gybing; They count as 2 seperate boats on the series results.

The only issue for me is, if I need one more counting result in the full rig, I am sometimes obliged to use it in order to bank a result rather than have a more 'enjoyable' sail in the radial. I certainly wouldn't mind on the odd occasion I sailed the radial, for it to count on my full rig result by applying the full rig PY (which is about a 1 minute difference over an hour race)...But could that system be used unfairly tactically?

Am I right in thinking that other boats with alternative rig sizes (i.e. RS300) could swap sizes with impunity and other (non strict OD) boats could change their mast/sail configurations..?

Certainly you cannot rely on OOD's to spot the subtle differences in rig sizes, other than to record the sail number/finish and leave the onus on the sailor to make a declaration if different PY's are applied.
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asterix View Drop Down
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Posts: 621 		Post Options Post Options   Quote asterix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 10:30pm
or A or B - simples
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 10:29pm

I guess you could just put a big 10 in the corner of the big sail and an 8 in the corner of the other?
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