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    Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Nick Peters


The 2 sails are called "10.2" and "8.4". apart from looking diffent sizes, the 10.2 has a black "swoosh" near the clew and black sail numbers, and the 8.4 has a white swoosh and (we were considering) white sail numbers.


Then your race officer, finishing the first open with 10.2's and 8.4,s on the same course could say into his dictaphone: "white 104, black 107, etc". Easy for any race officer. would go in class rules etc.


what do we think?





Nick; I think the people who look after the results & the boat db's in club software will struggle with that.


We have a whole host of problems with Lasers/Radials & people switching rigs.


Perhaps you could build a subscript into the class logo; I think just having different sail number colours is OK for RS circuit events where people know the difference but for average club race officers it is a finer point that will be missed.



I'm with Rick on this one. At clubs with little fleet racing with the odd one or two boats of a given class then it will be a struggle for race officers. You have to remember that a lot of your club volunteers are often older and not in touch with existing classes. If I told half (make that 90%) of our club OODs that there were actually three different rigs for a laser each with their own handicap they'd look at me funny!!
As others have said, if the sail says RS100 then the risk is that one number will be used.

I think in reality its all going to go the way the 300 went which is one handicap regardless of weight and rig, and so why waste time getting there and just put a peg in the ground with a single trial PY and adjust it as per normal at the end of the year.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 9:56pm
Urr Rich you should add that if you do choose to use the different PY (we dont want to discourage anyone from sailing in any conditions) you get a different set of results for that PY as yu would if you used a different boat.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Inland sea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 9:30pm
At DWSC we adopted a slightly simpler approach. Your result is calculated on the faster PY unless when you sign on you declare the slower PY.

Simple
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 8:25pm

Originally posted by Nigel_V

At my club we have just introduced a new rule. Helms of boats with more than one PY (e.g more than one rig) have to declare what there fastest configuration will be for that season and then sail using that PY even if they put the smaller rig on for stronger wind conditions. The thinking behind it was that people fit a smaller rig because on the day, they think that will give them the best result. To also give them a PY bonus seemed unfair. Equally, if someone chooses to sail with the smaller rig all season, they get the PY to go with it. This was the fairest systerm we could come up with so we will see how it goes.

That is the only 'Fair' way to do it, as i see it anyway!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Nigel_V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 7:32pm
At my club we have just introduced a new rule. Helms of boats with more than one PY (e.g more than one rig) have to declare what there fastest configuration will be for that season and then sail using that PY even if they put the smaller rig on for stronger wind conditions. The thinking behind it was that people fit a smaller rig because on the day, they think that will give them the best result. To also give them a PY bonus seemed unfair. Equally, if someone chooses to sail with the smaller rig all season, they get the PY to go with it. This was the fairest systerm we could come up with so we will see how it goes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 7:08pm
It shouldn't actually make any difference to OOD's at club level as they
only need record a sail number and a time. The handicap adjustment is
then applied later when the results are calculated and the onus is then on
the sailor to make sure he signs on with the right PY entered.

Would be sensible to make sure that whoever works out the results
knows that there are two PY's for the RS100 (so they dont apply a blanket
PY to cover both fleets).

Where the different colour numbers will be useful is on the water with
other RS100's and you will know if you need to be ahead of them or not -
although the rigs actually look quite different and if the fleets get that
big it will be amazing anyway !

I am presuming that the sail number applies to the HULL and there wont
be 10.4's and 8.2s with the same sail number on different boats ? How
does this work in the Laser / Radial fleet ?

Edited by ChrisC
Not now Kato (you fewl) !

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 6:49pm
We are exactly like that, Womble. It used to be you could only sail one boat, but we had few enough people qualifying as it was.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote womble12345 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 6:47pm

A few years ago there was a spate of Mirrors using white sail numbers, it got banned as race officers could not see the numbers when the sail was backlit, if you are going for white numbers make sure they are visible.

In my club handicap series it is the helm that matters, results I get in any boat all get counted together so in theory I can choose a Phantom in light winds and a Radial in high winds. This doesnt lead to the arms race that you may expect as not everyone has the luxury of multiple boats. I had assumed others clubs were similar, it seems I was wrong!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by Nick Peters

The 2 sails are called "10.2" and "8.4". apart from looking diffent sizes, the 10.2 has a black "swoosh" near the clew and black sail numbers, and the 8.4 has a white swoosh and (we were considering) white sail numbers.

Then your race officer, finishing the first open with 10.2's and 8.4,s on the same course could say into his dictaphone: "white 104, black 107, etc". Easy for any race officer. would go in class rules etc.

what do we think?

Nick; I think the people who look after the results & the boat db's in club software will struggle with that.

We have a whole host of problems with Lasers/Radials & people switching rigs.

Perhaps you could build a subscript into the class logo; I think just having different sail number colours is OK for RS circuit events where people know the difference but for average club race officers it is a finer point that will be missed.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote laser193713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 10 at 3:17pm

In terms of finishing the race there should never be two sails with the same number anyway so the colour of the number is irrelvant, perhaps all the numbers could be preceeded by a letter such as A or B or by a number a bit like the car numberplates are now with 09/59 both being the same year.

If not then the numbers can easily be worked out using a scoring program which would know which numbers were associated to which rig.

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