Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
![]() |
Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
![]() |
Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
![]() |
List classes of boat for sale |
Upwind struggles... |
Post Reply ![]() |
Author | |
fleaberto ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 21 Dec 09 at 10:40am |
I sail a Lightning368, nice little boat in the light stuff, turns into a handful (for me) once we get to F4 onwards. Now, ive taken bits of advice from all over the place on how to alleviate my upwind struggles - i just don't seem to be able to make decent progress uphill. I can crack the start & even be first over, but by the first mark i'm usually well last in our (handicap) fleet. I'm a lightweight. 6ft & 11st (70kg) tops. Some have said "All flat, whack everything on as tight as you can" - and i understand their logic. Others have said: "You're a lightweight so lots of outhaul but very little kicker so you spill wind from the top" - and i understand that one too. However, either i'm just really really crap, or i'm just not getting my settings right.......in my boat, higher breeze means high drama. gusts take me over & the boat just won't point upwind......i really need something leading to a reasonably definitive answer to try out next time cos i'm getting very frustrated at being fast on all points of the course - but losing hugely upwind. HELP! Edited by fleaberto |
|
Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays'
|
|
![]() |
|
Merlinboy ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Where do you sail? I would say in big wind if you sail on a smaller pond: Crank the outhaul on, and use Cunningham progressively to neutralise the helm and de-power the boat further. Not sure about kicker on a lightning but i would say whack a load of this on as well. Should give you a nice flat sail. Another control which is often over looked with bar advice is pull the plate up a bit in some cases a lot. |
|
![]() |
|
Neptune ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I always assumed the lighting was a lightweights boat - sort of Laser radial sized folk. You also need to hike harder... No matter how hard you are hiking - hike harder. If your legs and core hurt don't worry so does everybody elses. And remember "Pain is temporary - Glory is forever" |
|
![]() |
|
fleaberto ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 12 Jan 09 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 302 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Sorry, it's an inland lake (old gravel quarry) that i sail on. Not overly helped by surrounding trees and a couple of islands to block/bend/veer the wind & hide gusts! "Hike harder" - yeah, that's definite, i'm just struggling to trust my toestrap! haha! Lightning is, indeed, in the same ballpark as the Radial/Comet/Streaker (py1150) so not an overly demanding boat, just me being overly rubbish i think! I have to say, the overall consensus is "Flat sail, Flat hiking, Flat boat" so i think it'll be experimenting with how flat i can get without colliding with the boom each tack (comes right down onto the deck sometimes, a la the Europe) Flat, Flat, Flat.....ok, i'll be brave and lean out just that little bit more Cheers. |
|
Lightning368 'All the Gear' (409), Lightning368 'Sprite' (101), Laser (big number) 'Yellow Jack', RS Vareo (432)'The Golden Rays'
|
|
![]() |
|
Merlinboy ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Hike harder is easier said then done. you should be altering the rig and sails for the conditions as well as knocking a bit of plate up. You can hike as hard as you like but if you have the boat set up for light conditions it wont make a difference.
|
|
![]() |
|
JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
If its as big a difference as you say I think its far more likely to be about technique than it is to be about boat settings. Some sort of coaching session is probably the best bet. Does the Class Association run anything?
|
|
![]() |
|
Merlinboy ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
You are absolutely right Jim, but poor technique is highlighted if the boat is set up incorrectly for the conditions. If you can properly de-power the boat in big wind then you can concentrate on getting the technique right rather then just worrying when the next gust is going to hit!
|
|
![]() |
|
laser4000 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Aug 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 589 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Just what i was going to say - don't stress about the tune focus on a) Sailing in the breeze - if it's moderate to windy then this is super important - a boat in more pressure easily goes 1 knot faster than one that isn't b) Take the windshifts - Are you always spotting and tacking on them appropriately? c) Keeping the boat flat - if you're at the stage where you need to hike then you should do everything you can to keep the boat flat - pull on kicker etc is a good idea, but don't be afraid to let out the mainsail to keep the thing flat - spilling some power and a flat boat is faster 95% of the time than a boat that's on it's ear and going sideways. d) Are you always tacking the boat effectively loosing the minimum speed? - in light winds a nice roll is good, in more wind then getting across the boat and keeping it flat is what you're aiming for. I'd look at boat whisperer upwind DVD in the xmas stocking, plus also some of the RYA books. But I'd also echo Jim's comment and get yourself on some kind of course - even if the CA doesn't run something then look for something similar in laser radials as a lot of the techniques probably cross over. Failing that then get some video shot of yourself, stick it on utube and post the link on this thread and you'll get lots of feedback... |
|
![]() |
|
Garry ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 536 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Video would be great and all the advice above is sound but it sounds to me like you're making some fairly easy to correct mistakes. 1. don't be too disheartend, most boats are a handful to keep flat once the wind reaches F4, you have to work really hard to achieve good progress. 2. when you get hit by a gust there is a tendancy to either head up or dump main, if you head up then as soon as you start lossing speed you have to bear away again otherwise the boat stalls and the next gust blows you over. If you dump main then in the lull you tend to bear away a bit (rather than sheet in) and the end result is not pointing (and again a big gust can power you up too much causing you to blow over). which one do you have a tendancy to do 3. The secret is to keep the boat flat, tracking on the optimum course and work hard with the mainsheet to stay flat, try not to overuse the rudder. The good people will be continually playing the main or traveller (if you have one). 4. pointing isn't important its the best course to the windward mark (highest VMG). 5. when its windy speed is important to make the foils work 6. Lifting the centreboard can really help, it not only improves boat balance on the helm but also slows the boats reaction to gusts. 7. set the kicker up so when you let out a couple of inces of boom the top batten only moves about the same amount. This will allow you to make finer controlled eases without yo-yoing... 8 I think on the lightning the kicker also bends the mast so a bit of compromise here. Overcooking the kicker can make a singlehander really difficult to sail. 9. whatever I sail (Dacron sails) - I either have max cunningham or none, when its blowing continually adjusting or fine tuning this control is way down my list of priorities. 10. after tacking bear away a further 10 degrees with slightly eased sail only head up and sheet in as you pick up speed. 11. If you belong to a Volvo Champion Club ask your junior coordinator if they have the training DVDs the Topper one from three(ish) years ago has some of the squad sailors in various conditions. 12. Coaching really pays dividends and can be cheap, get one of your club's better sailors to follow you up wind and provide feedback. 13. Finally - check you're not the slowest boat on handicap, if you are then you can expect to be towards the back and the differences increase as the wind speed increases. |
|
Garry
Lark 2252, Contender 298 www.cuckoos.eclipse.co.uk |
|
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |