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Phils Rig School continued...

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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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    Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 9:52am
Originally posted by tickler

Perhaps we should re visit gunter rigs?


What are they tickler?

Don't tell me they need sash chords to really work well.
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winging it View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 9:54am
the same, but different...

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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 10:04am

Originally posted by G.R.F.

The point?

Standardisation - speed up production lead times - reduce sail build costs -
reduce the variables -make life easier for newcomers.

Have you not noticed how much windsurfers pay and get for their buck
compared to dinghy sailors, and there is one more margin generally.

Standardisation? Would it not be easier to have fewer types of boat then? that way we could have a mast and rig designed specifically for each boat and still get the benefits of higher volume because with fewer variations more people would be sailing each type.  We could stick with just the olympic classes like they do in loads of counties around the world.  Or we could go back to the old international rule (look it up on wiki). 

I'm being sarcastic to make the point.  You are contradicting yourself.  It is an interesting idea i grant you, but if someone like selden could make one mast for every type of boat do you not think they would have done so already? (and to be fair they are trying to make pretty much ever new one out of their series 3 carbon section if they can, so its going that way)

Another point is almost every class has a different length mast, so you would either need to change all the existing boats' designs, or have different length (emphasis on the word different) masts, inner and outer, for every type of boat anyway. 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 10:22am
I'd thought about the length issue.

The outer could be sections and modular.

The inner sail specific.

Surely mast length should be determined by boat length/width.

Someone somewhere must have determined that much in 'how to design
a sailboat school'

So once your would be builder has designed the box his boat will fit in,
he simply orders up the standard length outer, and the sail builder
supplies the rest. (I.E. The sail builder can carry the bit that makes his sail
work right in his facility)

Don't you agree it is ridiculously over complicated, time consuming and
quite often wrong the way things are at the moment.

A mast is after all only a means to an end, the sail is the engine that
drives it all, the mast should be a constant and variable only at the sail
designers request.

Edited by G.R.F.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 10:53am

Mast length determined by hull length? That is definately back to the international rule.  Have a look through the classes review in the latest issue of Y&Y and see how many different boats are around the 14' (4.27m) mark (as an example), does it have two trapeezes like an I14 or none like a merlin rocket or is it a single hander like a laser or supernova, and any one of maybe 30 other types of the same sort of length. 

Making the outer section modular would be a nightmare to engineer, would the sections be removable or would you bond them permanantly? how long would they be or would you get a number of lengths like scalextric track? Overlapping the sections to get a solid connection (however they attach) is going to put step changes in the bed characteristics, and a nasty series of stress concertrations throughout the structure.  To get a smoothe fair bend curve, you need a smoothe fair mast structure.  There maybe something more sound inn your theory that I can't see, but I really am stuggling to think of a way to make it work practically in the real world

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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 11:25am
Reaches for that Engineer v Marketing man in Hot Air Balloon joke.






Look we've told you what we want - just build it will you.

Edited by G.R.F.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Phil eltringham


Making the outer section modular would be a nightmare to engineer,
would the sections be removable or would you bond them permanantly?


Removable
Originally posted by Phil eltringham


how long would they be or would you get a number of lengths like
scalextric track?


Like scalextric maybe three sections with the tip variable.

Originally posted by Phil eltringham



Overlapping the sections to get a solid connection (however they attach)
is going to put step changes in the bed characteristics, and a nasty series
of stress concertrations throughout the structure.  To get a smoothe fair
bend curve, you need a smoothe fair mast structure.  There maybe
something more sound inn your theory that I can't see, but I really am
stuggling to think of a way to make it work practically in the real
world



Thank you for your notes Mr Eltringham, the board wants me to tell you
they have the utmost confidence in your ability to engineer this project, if
we could just have the prototypes by Friday lunchtime, the annual
company golf contest starts at two and the marketing dept have a strong
team to field this year..
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Phil eltringham View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 11:41am
This engineer is taking a leaf out of the Bob Crow (who seem so intent on me not getting to work anymore) book of contract negotiation and going on strike until I can get double my current salary for working no more than half an hour a month, get a 10% pay rise every year until I can retire aged 35 on 200% of my final salary, with no requirement for me to actually achieve anything with my time.  I will start work on the project within 28 worked days of the new contact being agreed...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 11:56am
Found it.
Originally posted by Some wag

The Balloonist

A man in a hot air balloon realized he was lost. He reduced altitude and
spotted a man below. He descended a bit more and shouted, "Excuse me,
can you help me? I promised a friend I would meet him half an hour ago,
but I don't know where I am."

The man below replied, "You are in a hot air balloon hovering
approximately 30 feet about the ground. You are between 40 and 42
degrees north latitude and between 58 and 60 degrees west longitude."

"You must be an engineer," said the balloonist.
"I am," replied the man, "but how did you know?"

"Well," answered the balloonist, "everything you told me is technically
correct, but I have no idea what to make of your information, and the fact
is I am still lost."

The man below responded, "You must be a manager."
"I am," replied the balloonist, "how did you know?"

"Well," said the man, "you don't know where you are or where you are
going. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep, and you
expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you are exactly in the same
position you were in before we met, but now, somehow, it's my
fault."
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 09 at 12:01pm
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