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Development = faster?

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    Posted: 21 May 04 at 6:56pm

Why not try average lap races with shorter laps?  That way the fast boats don't have to be the first to finish and the slow boats the last.  Unless it's really light and you can only get one lap....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 04 at 4:42pm

>>summer evening series are often dogged with the wind dying - the fast boats have finished leaving the slower handicaps bobbing about in hardly any breeze

 

As one of the faster classes at our club (RS400 at Burghfield), I wish that would happen!!

Instead we have a pursuit race: So the slower boats start in a lovely breeze, and we plane up and down near the start line. By the time we start, the wind is dropping and we can't get near them.  But it is much better that way around, than having the younger people sailing the slower boats and getting stranded out on the lake trying to cross the finish line. At least in a pursuit finish the finish line can be motored back through the fleet rather than having to wait.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 04 at 2:20pm

As well as the low return causing problems for achieving better average handicaps.  There is a fundemental problem if the handicap spread is too great.  The fast boats sail a different race in different conditions to the medium and slow.  Not only that summer evening series are often dogged with the wind dying - the fast boats have finished leaving the slower handicaps bobbing about in hardly any breeze.   There are corrections for all these things but they would be too complicated for the average club OOD to manage fairly, after all sometimes just timing the start and getting the flags up in the right order is an achievement.

Class racing is best, but I'd settle for any racing - my current challenge isn't to come first but simply get mine and my son's act together sufficiently to beat a couple of very good Ent sailors at our club on the water (even though my handicap is faster).  I had great satisfaction the other week sailing with one of our girls (who hardly ever goes out) when we beat one of the club's top laser sailors to the windward mark on the first beat (same Hcap under the old numbers).  Of course it all went downhill from there and at a minute or so to hoist the spinnaker we were never going to excel.  But we enjoyed it.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ent Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 04 at 12:54pm

Handicaps can not account for variations in conditions or the skills of individual sailors.  I don't think enought clubs are completing the returns which would improve the accuracy of the PY's.  There is another issue.  In some classes the better boats hardly ever club race or may be lucky enough to have fleet racing at their club. This means that their performance isn't visable to the RYA.  This will affect the yardsticks. It was mentioned a while back the the Merlins were spending money on improving materials and systems in their boats to make them perform better but there was no impact on the yardsticks.  They had a very good show at the bloddy mary but could those boats be the one traveling to opens etc and not doing club racing on a regualr basis?

Perhaps the yardsticks should be decided by a number of mixed class events where associations are invited to send their best and brightest. Failure to turn out results in their handicap dropping by 1 point.

 

Campaign for longer weekends and therefore more sailing!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Phil eltringham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 04 at 10:04am
The 29er yardstick has been all over the shop.  I remember when it first arrived in the UK it was raced at the bloody mary off the same handicap as the 4000's, it then went down to 940 and promtly won every event.  Its been hovering around 924 for a while now.  Personally I can just about sail to that, but my usual partner and I weigh 24 stone all up wheras the top guys are less than 20 I think.  Part of it is that people have now mastered the boat and also the optimum crew weight has dropped.  I reckon a value of about 918-921 is about right now which puts it level with an RS600 which seems right. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Neil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 04 at 10:12pm

Redback/Gary, I can't agree more...

I come consistently last, but I turn up, and at the moment, about 7 races into a series, I'm 5th overall! 

1 point on handicap is only worth about 3.5 secs in the hour...

and Redback... some of them 29'er's are just too darned fast for their own good...! watch that yardstick start to tumble!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 04 at 8:59pm
Garry's right to.  I have literally boxes of trophies in the loft - sounds immodest but I'm afraid I'm just an average sort of bloke who just keeps turning up!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Garry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 04 at 8:19pm
Has anyone noticed that the biggest gains can be made by actually sailing every race in the series. Next best is a good start so you do the first beat in clear wind, thirdly not making any major mistakes and playing the shifts / tide / current - by comparison the handicap makes only a marginal difference to the average sailor - you notice the handicap at events like the Bloody Mary because so many 'good' sailors are competing against each other in different classes.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote redback Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 04 at 3:12pm

I've noticed that too.  We have very close racing with 29ers in our 4000 and they are over 20 points different.  Similarly it is easy to get thrashed boat for boat with a RS400 if the wind is light. 

The biggest shock is against symetrical spinnaker boats.  Boats like Wayfarers, their little kites mean they can go higher than us off the wind in a breeze and downwind they can sail straight down the rhumb line which pays in the light stuff.  We do however have much wider grins than they.

By the way, a golden rule when sailing in mixed fleets, never try to go through a Wayfarer's lee!

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 May 04 at 1:21pm
Do you actually know how much difference on point or two points of PY make? Dowload a copy of something like sailwave (or make up a spreadsheet), type in results of a handicap race ir two at your club, and play around with different PYs. You'll be amazed at how much the numbers will need to be changed to make much difference to the results...
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