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Ranking as a Starter

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Stefan Lloyd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Ranking as a Starter
    Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 3:40pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

I'd say a starter is someone geting ready to start and after the start they become a racer ...

Wrong way around. You are racing before the start.

"A boat is racing from her preparatory signal"

Sorry Rick but you are perfectly ignoring clear definitions in the RRS to justify the outcome you consider fair.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by Stefan Lloyd

Originally posted by Guest#260

I would award the result; why wouldn't you?

Because their SIs refer to the number of starters, not the number who raced. 3 raced but only one started.

I don't think you should pretend the SIs say what you'd like them to say or meant them to say or think they ought to say.

 

I think the definiton of a a starter is different to the definition of when a boat starts ... given the ambiguity (sp?) I'd let the result stand and fix the SI's.

I'd say a starter is someone geting ready to start and after the start they become a racer ... so in this case there were 3 starters (or perhaps 2) ...

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 3:17pm

Originally posted by Guest#260

I would award the result; why wouldn't you?

Because their SIs refer to the number of starters, not the number who raced. 3 raced but only one started.

I don't think you should pretend the SIs say what you'd like them to say or meant them to say or think they ought to say.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 3:12pm

Originally posted by Noah

OCS is a start - albeit an illegal start

No, in the terms defined by RRS, a boat that is OCS has not started. Read the definition, which is posted in this thread.



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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 2:46pm
Yes but....getting back to the original question...when and why did the "Ranking as a Starter" rule disappear? Anyone got any old rule books? I know it was there in '77 , but can't find any of my more recent references.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 2:23pm
I'm with Rick on this one, and apply the same method as mentioned by JimC at my club (Thornbury).
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Noah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 1:26pm

OCS is a start - albeit an illegal start, so there's at least two starters in that race. Ask some questions: What score was the early starter awarded? OCS or DNC?  What would have been the outcome if the early starter was only 5 seconds early instead of 5 minutes and a race (on the water) had ensued? What score was the retiree given. In my view it should have been DNS, not DNC, because he 'came to the starting area'.

I agree with the view that racing should be encouraged - and the club's attitude doesn't appear to do this. The SI's need changing...

Just my 2p worth...

Nick
D-Zero 316

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 12:41pm

I think the answer is A9 ... it says "a boat that came to the starting area" ...

In this instance 3 boats came to the starting area so we have a race on ...

I would award the result; why wouldn't you?

At club level every effort should be made to encourage paticipation; if 3 boats launched and only one managed to finish for what ever reason that's a result.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Stefan Lloyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 12:12pm

Originally posted by JimC

If not did the Topper then start properly at the start of Lap 2?

Start A boat starts when, having been entirely on the pre-start side of the starting line at or after her starting signal, and having complied with rule 30.1 if it applies, any part of her hull, crew or equipment crosses the starting line in the direction of the first mark.

Unless the Topper went around lap 1 very quickly, I don't see how it could satisfy the requirement to be entirely on the pre-start side at the starting signal.

In the absence of any other definition, surely a starter is a boat that starts in conformance to the definition above. It would appear BNS was the only starter.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 07 at 10:01am
Is there a time limit for starting in the SIs? If not did the Topper then start properly at the start of Lap 2? Otherwise I fear that BNS will have trouble gaining redress. Of course BNS could apply for redress on the grounds that the english of the SI is so poor as to make it essentially meaningless!

It certainly seems as if the intention of the SI as written is that OCS boats don't count towards competitors. This has interesting and perhaps inconsistent effects, depending on your scoring system.

If I were on Lancing's Sailing Committee I'd suggest that the SIs refer to competitors as being more consistent. We do that at our club, and we have decided that the whole reservoir counts as the start area, so basically if you get off the bank you count as DNS not DNC.

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