New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Most Competitive Nationals / Euros?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Most Competitive Nationals / Euros?
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Paramedic View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 27 Jan 06
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Most Competitive Nationals / Euros?
    Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 8:00am
Originally posted by JimiQuik

Surely Paramedic didn't mean any good club sailor can jump into another class and get a top 20!?

I thought they meant if your a good GP14 club sailor (as in sail it every week) you can get a top 20 in the GP14 events not in other classes. I thought the point was if you are a good RS200, Merlin etc. club sailor you might not get a top 20 finish at your own nationals.

Precisely ;)
Back to Top
Roy Race View Drop Down
Far too distracted from work
Far too distracted from work
Avatar

Joined: 15 Aug 07
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 275 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Roy Race Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 8:53am

What's a good club sailor? Good is just a relative term and can mean anything you want it to mean. To a complete beginner, the Solo nationals top10 would seem very good, to anyone in the top 10 of the Star worlds, the standard of the Solo top 10 would seem very poor.

 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 8:53am

I suppose statistically the most competitive fleets are the ones with the most different winners over the years (and, by implication, the fewest number of multiple winners). 

Being hard to win and being competitive are slightly different things.  As soon as there are two good boats a championship becomes hard to win, but competitive suggests strength in depth. 

 
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 9:03am
Originally posted by Roy Race

What's a good club sailor? Good is just a relative term and can mean anything you want it to mean. To a complete beginner, the Solo nationals top10 would seem very good, to anyone in the top 10 of the Star worlds, the standard of the Solo top 10 would seem very poor.

 

And yet, could those Star sailors jump into Solos and take the top 10 positions? I doubt it. Enough Solo sailors have gone into other classes and done well to show that for a domestic class, the standard is way up there.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Guest View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 21 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 9:38am
Originally posted by Peaky

I suppose statistically the most competitive fleets are the ones with the most different winners over the years

I wouldn't say that ... Ben Ansile dominated the Lasers for years ... does that mean the Laser wasn't a competitve fleet?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 9:54am
But the standard at the top of the Star fleet is quite exceptional.  I'd like to think that Percy, Simpson, Scheidt, Mendelblatt, Monk, Kusznierewicz, Loof and Cayard would do quite well Solo's (especially if its windy!).  Andrew Landenberger, Moth World Champ, Topcat World Champ, NS14 whizz, Tornado silver medallist and generally bloody good sailor struggles to make even the top 30 at Star events, but I'm sure he'd fancy his chances of a top 10 in the Solo nationals.  Which is no disrepect to the Solo class and its top competitors, who are way way better than I could ever hope to be and do indeed seem to be a who's-who of domestic sailing. 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Guest#260

Originally posted by Peaky

I suppose statistically the most competitive fleets are the ones with the most different winners over the years

I wouldn't say that ... Ben Ansile dominated the Lasers for years ... does that mean the Laser wasn't a competitve fleet?

Ben is a bit of an exception...

I suppose you should look beyond the winner.  Perhaps better yardsticks might be a high variation in the top 5 at successive nationals, or the number of individual races the overall top 5 finished outside the top 10 in?  These measure how evenly matched the fleet is, but not how good the sailors are relative to other classes.

 
Back to Top
tickler View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 03 Jun 07
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 895 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 11:49am
I have observed over the years that all championship fleets behave much the same. 5% will have a chance of doing well and /or winning. 10% have an outside chance of a top 3 and the rest are, well......the rest. Unless of course some hot shot turns up. He /she can be a cheeky talented kid or an experienced master they can both ruin the regulars day.

Also all sailing requires certain talents, understanding rules, tacking on shifts starting ect. If you have mastered all these (which I never have) you must be halfway there at least, regardless of class. I watched a couple of races recently with one of the reputably most competitive classes and three boats at the back were, well, crap, as bad or worse than me so a good sailor could be mid fleet at least.
Back to Top
winging it View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 22 Mar 07
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 11:52am
Last year at the contender worlds in Kingston we had a an excellent Star sailor from Florida jump into a contender, never having trapezed before, and do extremely well.

I think tickler is right - if you have a well developed skills set most of those skills are transferable.
the same, but different...

Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 09 at 1:14pm
Originally posted by Peaky

But the standard at the top of the Star fleet is quite exceptional. 

I know that's what the Star people say, but I don't know there's any particular evidence that its higher than any other Olympic class. Yes it has a bunch of older guys in who are a bit too mature to be competetive in the lead free classes, but if you think about it that's something of a negative.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2345>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy