Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
![]() |
Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
![]() |
Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
![]() |
List classes of boat for sale |
Vectran forestays |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page <1234> |
Author | |
Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 15 Aug 07 at 11:03am |
Here, I've looked up a definition for you: Creep Which is what I said in the passage you first quoted. Basically, if you pull on a metal spring it will extend a certain % then stop (if at room temperature). If you pull on plastic, it stretches intially (which is what Marlow are quoting you), then apparently stops but actually continues to elongate slowly as time passes. Not significant for short durations, but I guess that over the course of a race your Dyneema standing rigging could creep enough to lose some of its tension. With Vectran that's much-reduced. |
|
![]() |
|
Guest ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
In their tech data sheets they give extension % v load graphs. In none of their data is there any mention of how this extension changes over time. I am sure you are correct because when I have tried D12 for trap lines they have felt quite spongey compared to V12 - but that's not creep anyway If D12 extends to 3% at 50% load; any idea how much further it will extend over time with continued 50% load? It does say on the V12 data sheet "will not creep" ... |
|
![]() |
|
Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Here's what vectranfiber.com say about Vectran: In experiments on yarns and small braids,minimal creep was observed with loads up to 30% of ratedbreaking load.These tests ran for as long as 10,000 hours at ambient temperatures I've just read, however, the assertion that provided Dyneema is loaded less than 50% of its rated strength, it won't creep significantly, so maybe the distinction between Vectran and Dyneema is not so important for us. Detailed creep figures tend to be closely guarded trade secrets though, apparently. All ropes need to be stretched repeatedly, of course, before the fibres align and the rope finds its effective final length (hence your boingy trapeze ropes, I'd suggest, Rick), and it needs to do that every time you coil or uncoil it - maybe a better reason not to use rope in your jib luff. I'd also be concerned about the rope cutting under load - steel wire is much more resistant in that respect. Nick: why don't you just flake your jib down onto the foredeck? Saves the twisting you get by rolling. I never remove my jib from the boat - leave the halyard and tack attached, flake it and shove the cover over it. Saves all that taping, and I doubt it suffers any more than if it is continually taken off, put in a bag and lugged around/sat on/buckled etc. |
|
![]() |
|
Guest ![]() Newbie ![]() Joined: 21 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 0 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Interesting ... seems that Vectran may be over spec'ed for us then. It's almost double the price so I guess it's only really justified in parts of the standing rigging. i.e. Shroud adjusters etc ... |
|
![]() |
|
Medway Maniac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 May 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2788 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I'm using Holt Ultra-line (allegedly Vectran) for my lowers, but have taken to referring to it (when talking to my non-technical - but pretty - crew) as 'the stretchy non-stretch stuff'. I keep tightening them up, but to be fair, maybe the fibres are still aligning! |
|
![]() |
|
Roy Race ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 15 Aug 07 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 275 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Rick, here's an experiment to try: Pull the core out of a fairly thin dyneema rope, say 3mm or less. Tie one end to a beam in your garage ceiling or somewhere similar. Use the other end to suspend a heavy object (lawnmower, road trailer axel etc!) about 1" above the ground, swinging freely. If you leave it overnight, when you come back in the morning the heavy thing will be resting on the floor because of the creep. This is why dyneema is useless as standing rigging.
(edit): I'm now ready to be proven wrong and shot down in flames! Edited by Roy Race |
|
![]() |
|
BigFatStan ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 31 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 78 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I used to do A LOT of competitive archery and there was always argument about what materials to use for bow strings. Most top archers (then at least) used Dyneema (of one form or another... there are definitely different types). However, it was generally accepted that Vectran had less creep (which was , in isolation, a significant benefit). Then there were string materials which were mixtures of the two... Of course we used to use Kevlar, which had every desirable characteristic for bow strings bar one - it would BREAK, catastrophically and without any warning!
Having said all that, the requirements for bow strings are rather different than those for standing rigging, or artillery linings... I would have thought Vectran was more suitable for rigging due to low creep. |
|
![]() |
|
BigFatStan ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 31 Jan 06 Online Status: Offline Posts: 78 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Also I should say that I had a set of PBO shrouds on my Osprey this year - staggeringly light and very funky! Talk to Allspars if you are interested
|
|
![]() |
|
aardvark_issues ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 24 Jul 05 Location: Weston-Super-Mare Online Status: Offline Posts: 505 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
I had vectran rigging on my moth before last. stretched like crazy, and even at 4mm I managed to snap one of the shrouds... Wire is the way, or PBO as Stan says.
|
|
![]() |
|
swiftsolo.org ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 14 Jul 05 Location: Australia Online Status: Offline Posts: 101 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Synthetics have been tried and discarded on Swift Solos for the main stays. The creep makes it really hard to duplicate rig tension settings. It is still being used on the cap shrouds as the creep issue is much less critical here and there are weight savings. The guys in the Tris that are using synthetics have started using Dynex Dux. Limited creep, good uv resistance, easy to splice, good abrasion resistance and inexpensive. They are using it on rotating rigs which don't have a problem with creep as they run with slack rigging anyway to allow mast rotation. The rope can be obtained here http://www.precourt.ca/ Cheers |
|
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page <1234> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |