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What rig?

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Moose View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Aug 07 at 1:00pm
Hi all, I'm currently thinking about converting a canadian canoe to some sort of outrigger canoe/trimaran thing and was wondering what rig to give it.  The canoe is 13' 9" long and just under 3" wide.  I was wondering about a laser rig?  I sail on the broads, so I need a rig with halyards, not a sleeved main.  A centre mainsheet would be ideal.  I was going to buy 2 laser rudders and connect them together in a twin-skeg config, like seen on fast cats.  Plz reply soon!
Sails a half-decker on the Norfolk Broads.
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English Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 07 at 1:31pm

Hi Moose welcome to the forum.

It depends what sort of sailing you are going to do. If you are cruising the broads then an easy handling sail would be best. I guess you want the centre main because you are seated facing forward?

Something like the sail from a Laser2 would do you. You might be a little overpowered downwind depending on where you site the mast. Perhaps a Mirror gaff rig might also be worth considering.

Cats need two rudders because they sail on only one hull at a time. Perhaps I'm wrong but I don't see this happening with your project. Oh, do you mean put them on the outriggers and use  the connecting bar as a sort of handlebar?

An unstayed mast would load up the canoe hull but it would save you from having to over-engineer the bracing that will hold the outriggers. Good luck but I think you're mad!

English Dave
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 07 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by Moose

  The canoe is 13' 9" long and just under 3" wide.  I was wondering about a laser rig?

Might be a bit big... Maybe Topper or Mirror... Presumably you mean three feet beam rather than inches!

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Moose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Moose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 07 at 7:47pm

Yes, I mean three feet, not three inches !

English Dave, you are correct about putting rudders on outriggers and using a connecting bar as a handlebar but not about your thoughts with the centre mainsheet.  I want one so I can jamcleat it to something and yet be able to release it quickly if necessary.  I'm not familliar with the Laser2, but will do my homework.  I wondered if a mirror rig would be a bit small?
The stayed vs. unstayed mast arguments are valid, but the canoe is only built from 4mm marine ply (I know coz I built it) and i don't think it would take the stresses involved with an unstayed mast.  The outrigger bracing could be postitioned to take shrouds etconce I had decided on a rig.
When you say a Laser2 rig might be overpowered downwind, are you woried about pitchpoleing?  Me too, but I'm willing to take the risk!

You think I'm mad and you don't even know me!  You should hear my friends' opinions!

Cheers,

Moose

Sails a half-decker on the Norfolk Broads.
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Smight at BBSC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Smight at BBSC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 07 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by English Dave

 Good luck but I think you're mad!

I'm sorry but i have to agree with dave there

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Post Options Post Options   Quote neilw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 07 at 11:32am

why not contact the guys at the Open Canoe Sailing Group - http://www.ocsg.org.uk/

 

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Moose View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Moose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 07 at 11:48am

The OCSG seem to sy away from outriggers and biggish rigs though.  I'll give it a try though.

Hell, at this rate I might just buy a laser!

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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 07 at 12:43pm
The reasons I suggest a smaller rig are:-
1) International Canoes go at insane speeds with a relatively small rig. You don't need big rags with a small slippy hull.
2) Loads on your beams and outriggers are more sensible

Structurally your challenge is to deal with the load paths and work out how big they will be.

Where are you going to sail the boat from. Sit in the central canoe hull or run about on a trampoline? This controls how much righting moment you will have and is a big influenced on rig size.
What are your outer hulls and beams going to be? That is the other factor that dictates your rig.

If you're going to have big outer hulls that are buoyant enough to support a substantial amount or even all of the displacement (like an Orma Tri in miniature) Then you need massive beams, but you can also have a big rig to support the power. With this setup you can sit in the middle and still have a fair sized rig, but if you're going to build two big outer hulls then it will be better as a catamaran and leave your current hull out of it.

If you're going to have small outer hulls that are really little more than tip floats like a Flying boat then you have a (lot) less power available because you'll need to stop before the floats sink.
Your alternatives here are to run about on a trampoline (like Bethwaite's HSP - see High Performance Sailing by Frank Bethwaite in your local library), in which case you can have a pretty big rig, but still plenty of beam power, or you can just sit in the middle, in which case the rig really needs to be pretty small, but the beams and floats don't need to be that substantial either...
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English Dave View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote English Dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 07 at 2:05pm
Originally posted by Moose

Hell, at this rate I might just buy a laser!

Well that's really all the proof we need on the madness front.

English Dave
Ballyholme Yacht Club

(You'd think I'd be better at it by now)

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 07 at 3:19pm

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/

http://www.sailboatstogo.com/catalog/product.php?category=CA NOE_RIG

A couple of ideas here...if you google the subject, you will find that almost everything has been tried...

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