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New rig for the 49er... |
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Isis ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Sep 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2753 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 02 Aug 07 at 6:46pm |
Seems the rumors were true....
There are pictures on The Daily Sail today showing the prototype new rig for the 49er with full carbon mast. The main features a small square top and is 0.5m bigger than the current one. A couple of other changes to bring in in-boom mainsheet purchases and changes to the gnav settup are also being talked about... Thoughts? Is it healthy for the class to try and keep with the times or is it just extra cash for the builders as the entire fleet is forced to update? Edited by Isis |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Well if you don't make small changes like that when the time comes, you end up like the 470, where the boats cost a friggin' fortune and clap out in no time at all... If the new rig lasts longer it will be to the long term advantage of 49er sailors, even if they take a hit on money in the short term.
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Merlinboy ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
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I'm sitting on the fence here, the 9er is a great boat but neds a lighter stick! However is this not going to price the back end non olympic fleet out of the market???
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FireballNeil ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 654 |
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I read an article somewhere (can't remember where) from ovi that said due to the cost of aluminium and the increased availability of carbon (??) it would not have much effect on cost, and also something about kit being passed from olympians to back end sailors
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Neil
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WildWood ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 14 Nov 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 136 |
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I think a class like the 49er need to keep adding wee changes like this to improve the performance since it is an all out speed machine. It's surely healthier making relatively small but frequent changes like this, than less frequent bigger changes. If I owned a 49er I want to know that the new style mains would fit on an old style mast, so there is some backward compatibility and owners aren't obliged to replace both mast and sail at the same time. Bethwaite seems to think it will cost the sailors less longer term anyway as the new mast will be stronger and not need replaced so frequently. Sounds reasonable to me. If you sail one of these boats you need pretty deep pockets anyway. |
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Merlinboy ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 03 Jul 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 3169 |
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New rig and sails doesnt sound like a "small change to me wildwood"
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49erGBR735HSC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 30 Mar 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1991 |
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It's going to be a phased change, proposed this year, new gear available from Easter time onwards and at the moment, proposed to become legal after the 2008 games. Old sails such as main are compatible with the new mast but you can't put a new main on an old mast due to the height increase. Price increase of the new gear will be 15 to 25% on origainal prices from what I can remember off the top of my head. Spoke to Dave Hall about the changes and it seems very reasonable and the old style gear won't go out rules over night, so by the time the rules change, most people should be able to budget to make the change. From my point of view owning a 49er, I'm quite excited about the prospect because its going to be an improvement on the boat plus performance should increase slightly. The class are being quite sensible about their approach as they realise that when they changed almost overnight from North's to Neil Prydes they lost support from some boat owners so this time they don't want the same affect. Some people will be upset about the change but don't think that it could be done any other way and the way I look at it is the money I'd be setting aside for new sails is going straight towards updating the boat. They aren't changing the kite so in reality, it will be like buying a suit and half of sails for the boat which most people would consider reasonable without thinking over the course of a year to 2 years.
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Skiffman ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() ![]() Joined: 27 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 291 |
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There are two carbon rigs on trial, a CST and a South Shore Marine both in Aus. The CST is 8cm taller than the existing mast, it is in 3 sections, will have fixed carbon spreaders, very similar bend to current mast (CST 6% and old mast 6.4%), it is made by a computer, so no human lay up or anything the computer winds the carbon around the mandrill etc. All masts and spreaders will be within 1% of each other and you can send the mast by a courior. The current sail will fit on it but it will be 8cm higher off the deck and likewise the square top main for the CST mast will fit on the current mast but just sit 8cm closer to deck. Then there is the South Shore mast, this is 22cm longer, made in 3 sections, fixed spreaders, straighter than current mast (4% bend) and it has computer cut carbon with hand lay up, with is made overisze by 5 or 10% then sanded down by a computer to the correct diameter. Current this mast is being used with a 3DL North Main but this is only because North sails own South Shore. So after seeing the two I prefer the CST, but I have not sailed with them yet. The CST has had a lot more development and has been trialed in Aus by Nath and Ben (3rd at Worlds) for some time now. They are on the 3rd version of the mast and sail, they have gradually been getting smaller. Both masts are about 4kg lighter than the current mast. Everyone who has sailed it says that it is awesome to sail and they are still not sure how big the speed difference will be. I guess we will find out at the nationals in a couple of weeks when both the rigs are going to be doing the event (doubt they will be allowed to be included in results if it turns out to be super quick). It should be interesting to see the difference accross the wind range but its weekend warriors with the new rigs not olympic sailors. There are also a number of other changes that could happen with the first being new moulds. Currently all the builders will need new moulds in the next 6 months, so they are going to get new CNC moulds (like they did with the foils). But the new moulds are going to be symmetrical, currently there is a 5mm difference below chine and 20mm difference above chine. This is prompted by ISAF who want to stop fairing, because at the moment there are about 80 boats faired each cycle but only 10-20 done properly. This faired boats that have been done properly are almost symmetrical below the chine. So will this makes the boats faster??? Well in the case of the new CNC mould foils that came in, no. The old foils are faster and easier to sail with than the new foils so this could happen again. But more than likely it will make no difference and at least all the builders will have identical moulds. Next possible change is new wings, apprently each builder looses money if they sell a wing seperatly because they are so hard to make. There is over 20 bits of foam, bits of aluminium etc etc in them. The new wings will not have a track on (no need now there is no weight equalisation), instead they will bolt on, there will be 2 peices of foam making them alot easier, cheaper and quicker to make. But the problem is in the way they attach, alot of sailors were not keen on the idea of bolting them on, so they are trying to find another solution. The new wings will be 3kg lighter each, and they will stay stiff for longer. New vang and boom, not many people liked this idea including myself. The current vang system works very well, it just needs a little tweaking like making the lever out of stronger metal and finding away to get more travel. The new kicker was impossible to pull enough vang on (the new system is like the 29er gnav). The new boom is also pointless in boom mainsheets look cool, but try changing a block in the boom on the water, not easy. The current boom is absolutly fine and no body has any issues with it. All in all if the most likely changes are the rig, hull and wings. They will be 10kg lighter than the current boat and rig. So should they put the 6kg that they have taken out of the wing back into the hull to stiffen it up? Generally all the sailors are worried about the extra tension that we think we will have to use with the carbon mast, which could shorten the boats competitive life. A few sailors want full pre-peg carbon hulls but this will cost a fortune even if they will last forever. Another option is to but a carbon brace that runs from undernieth the mast to the front of the boat. Introduction of the new bits should be before the olympics, but you obviously can not use any of them in the olympics. This is to try and make it an easier transistion process and does not leave us waiting until after the olympics for it when if its ready we can start tuning and practising with it for 2012. To begin with if you have a carbon mast you will have to carry 4kg of lead and if they do make the boats lighter then you will have to carry 6kg of lead for that aswell. This is to try and keep the old boats, rigs competitive and then they will say that you have to use carbon rig and new boat in Gold fleet racing after a couple of years depending on how quick the change over is. Anyway there are lots of questions to be asked but at the end of the end it is up to us to decide what changes we want. |
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