Edition
Boats for sale
| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
 |
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
 |
| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
 |
List classes of boat for sale |
luffing |
Post Reply 
|
Page 123> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Rupert 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: luffingPosted: 02 Jul 12 at 11:43am |
|
Maybe we are thinking of slightly different meanings to intent, because what you have described fits mine - the intention was clear in both your examples. Intent becomes less clearcut in other circumstances.
|
|
|
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
|
 |
|
|
JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Jul 12 at 11:34am |
|
If you carried on sailing the same heading for the next quarter mile after the overlap was broken that's pretty good evidence for the PC you were sailing a proper course. If on the other hand you changed back to the original heading as soon as you were clear then its pretty good evidence that it wasn't.
For what little my opinion is worth I don't agree with Rupert at all about intent - or quite a lot else on this thread. |
|
|
|
|
gbrspratt
Posting king 
Joined: 26 Sep 11 Location: Felixstowe Online Status: Offline Posts: 170 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Jul 12 at 11:00am |
This sounds like a sensible understandable answer (if its correct) Out of curiosity how do you prove you are or are not sailing your proper course? or is that a whole new can of worms?
|
|
|
|
|
Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Jul 12 at 8:39am |
|
So it does become about intent, whether the rules mention it or not.
Luffing someone to stay ahead of them is sailing above your proper course. Luffing someone because that is where you'd be going if that boat wasn't there, isn't. Therefore, convincing a protest committee that your proper course changed because of outside factors which had nothing to do with the boat you luffed become all about intent. |
|
|
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
|
|
|
|
Presuming Ed
Really should get out more
Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Jul 12 at 10:21pm |
|
If a boat establishes an overlap to leeward within 2bl, she can sail her proper course but no higher. If she establishes an overlap more than 2bl away, she can luff to HtW. If a boat establishes an overlap to windward, the leeward boat can luff to HtW.
All alterations of course by a RoW boat must comply with 16.1. Edited by Presuming Ed - 01 Jul 12 at 10:22pm |
|
|
|
|
r2d2
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 29 Sep 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 350 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Jul 12 at 10:16pm |
|
yes she can but she must give the other boat room to keep clear
Edited by r2d2 - 01 Jul 12 at 10:16pm |
|
|
|
|
Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Jul 12 at 9:52pm |
|
OK, clear this up once and for all then, please? Is the boat to leeward entitled to sail her proper course however she got to her position, or not? And if not, when isn't she?
|
|
|
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
|
|
|
|
SoggyBadger
Really should get out more
Joined: 26 Oct 10 Location: The Wild Wood Online Status: Offline Posts: 552 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Jul 12 at 9:24pm |
Sadly I don't think that's quite correct. The problem comes with the definition of "proper course" (see ISAF Case 14). Even within the restrictions of rule 17 (which I think covers the scenario we're discussing here) the leeward boat can still change course as long as she gives the windward boat the opportunity to keep clear. |
|
|
Best wishes from deep in the woods
SB |
|
|
|
|
Presuming Ed
Really should get out more
Joined: 26 Feb 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 641 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Jul 12 at 9:00pm |
The rules aren't about intention. They're about what boats actually do. Altering course to windward is luffing. From the RRS: Terminology A term used in the sense stated in the Definitions is printed in italics or, in preambles, in bold italics (for example, racing and racing). ‘Racing rule’ means a rule in The Racing Rules of Sailing. ‘Boat’ means a sailboat and the crew on board. ‘Race committee’ includes any person or committee performing a race committee function. A ‘change’ to a rule includes an addition to it or deletion of all or part of it. ‘National authority’ means an ISAF member national authority. Other words and terms are used in the sense ordinarily understood in nautical or general use. From the Oxford dictionary website: luff Pronunciation: /lʌf/ Sailing noun the edge of a fore-and-aft sail next to the mast or stay: if your luff is flapping, pull the sail towards you to fill it with wind verb [with object] steer (a yacht) nearer the wind: I came aft and luffed her for the open sea obstruct (an opponent in yacht racing) by sailing closer to the wind: he can luff you, but must leave you room to get clear The limit on how high a leeward boat can luff is provided by RRS 17. 17 ON THE SAME TACK; PROPER COURSE If a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack, she shall not sail above her proper course while they remain on the same tack and overlapped within that distance, unless in doing so she promptly sails astern of the other boat. This rule does not apply if the overlap begins while the windward boat is required by rule 13 to keep clear. The limit on the speed of the luff is 16.1. 16 CHANGING COURSE 16.1 When a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear. Edited by Presuming Ed - 01 Jul 12 at 9:02pm |
|
|
|
|
SoggyBadger
Really should get out more
Joined: 26 Oct 10 Location: The Wild Wood Online Status: Offline Posts: 552 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Jul 12 at 8:46pm |
I prefer to think of it as the product of a fertile imagination  Plus a rake of beer |
|
|
Best wishes from deep in the woods
SB |
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page 123> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy