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Jaws View Drop Down
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Posts: 92 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jaws Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: A few RS600 questions
    Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 7:16pm
Thanks for all the replies everyone. 
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r2d2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 350 		Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 12 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Contender443

The 100 has a cleat for the main halyard at the top of the mast, then the long tail is outside the mast and is secured to a bungy elastic. Therefore you only have about 10cm of halyard under tension. So little chance of any stretch in the halyard.
 
So I hoist the sail with no cunningham or kicker tension at all. I always make sure they are freed off as I hoist.

thx for the reply - so do you induce any mast bend with the main halary then or does this only come once the cunningham is attached?
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 12 at 9:29pm
Jaws,
 
Thats probably not all slippage - thats you pulling the slack out the halyard when you pull on the cunningham.  You really need to pre-tension the halyard on a 600 as they use windsurferish levels of cunningham once the breeze is up.  The main halyar cleat should be one of tehse http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_details.asp?theid2=30 - I'd personally go for teh hard annodized one as it lasts longer.
 
A couple of ways to do it:
 
1) Tie a loop on the halyard below teh cleat once you think the sail is up and then run teh tail under the boom jaw and back though teh loop and pull hard - you'll probably get most of those extra inches.
 
2)  Tie the main helyard to the cunningham and pull hard to get that extra main halyard tension - your really mashing the mainsail head in to the mast now. 
 
3) use a windsurfing style grip cclamcleat and use some good old body weight  (http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleats.asp?theid=35)
 
All those will work, No. 3 will be sufficient with a Kevlar halyard or somethig equally low stretch (creap), but remeber to geep moving that knot at the top every other weekend.
 
No.2 followed by No.1 are probably most popular but getting theknot out the halyard can be a right pig.  Some people now carry opposing clamcleat connected by a short strop - same cleat as the main halyard mast cleat, so you slot the main halyard in one and the cunning ham into the other.
 
Again with all these keep moveing teh halyard knot or your'll end up breakign the halyard, normally when your on your victory lap and round the bottom mark to pull a load of cunningham on.
 
We strated leading teh continuous cuningham over teh fordeck as its already a potential spagetti mess running along teh wings and seems to work well.  You don't NEED a continuous one, but it does make life easier.  Definatly a continuous kicker though!
 
Gybing - speed, the more the better.    You'll need to steer a s-curve through teh gybe so you don't come out too hot or you'll just chuck it in.  Practice really as teh 600 is a much easier boat to gybe than tack.  Some say you should have a little kicker on for teh gybe, but i only did that when it was approaching 20 knots, just make sure you control the mainsheet trhough the gybe by holding all the falls in your hand.
 
Ratchet block - what ever takes your fancy, something around 60 odd mm should be fine - you don't need and autoratchet so that will save some costs - I used a 57mm hharken job for 3 hard seasons and it was still perfect when i sold the boat.  I found finding a mainsheet you like made the biggest difference.  If the mainsheet is too heavy then you are not using enough kicker and cunningham!
 
The Yahoo groups are being phased out as all the RS classes are getting new websites.  The new forum can be found on RS600.org.
 
Cheers
Neptune
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 12 at 10:03am
The 100 has a cleat for the main halyard at the top of the mast, then the long tail is outside the mast and is secured to a bungy elastic. Therefore you only have about 10cm of halyard under tension. So little chance of any stretch in the halyard.
 
So I hoist the sail with no cunningham or kicker tension at all. I always make sure they are freed off as I hoist.
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r2d2 View Drop Down
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Posts: 350 		Post Options Post Options   Quote r2d2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 12 at 2:06am
interesting practical thread.  Any RS100 sailors here to describe the main halyard hoisting process for the 100?  how much mast pre-bend do you induce with the halyard before putting any cunno on?  Do you use these 2:1 loop methods? etc 

by the way RS supplied standard (4mm I think) rivets to retro fit to the 100 carbon mast - they were / are fine but were on the limit of what could be done with a cheap non-scissor rivet gun 


Edited by r2d2 - 28 Apr 12 at 2:09am
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Ian29937 View Drop Down
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Posts: 409 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Ian29937 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 12 at 1:01am
Originally posted by fudheid

Originally posted by Ian29937

Having just had a carbon mast repaired i needed to cut a hole for a terminal back plate to rivet on to it. I've spoken to two riggers (one is one of the biggest in the uk) and they both gave a quizzical look when i asked for carbon rivets. What are they? they asked, we just use standard rivets.
You need to make sure that there is plenty of duralac all over anything metal to stop electrolysis. Which happens on any two metals.
 
 
I believe they are designed not to crush the carbon.....

the point is that standard rivets will do the job, they won't crush carbon (if its made properly) the issue is with metals reacting and in this case standard seasure rivets are fine (according to Rig Magic + other riggers we asked) lots of duralac....to stop electroylisis
 
The only point I was making in response to the "What are they? they asked" comment, was that they do indeed exist....
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 12 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by Jaws

Does a 2:1 halyard involve the halyard exiting the top the mast, going through the eyelet at the head of the sail (or through a shackle that attaches to the sail) and then terminating at the mast? I've never actually come across one before, although I've often heard them mentioned.

It runs through a forged shackle at the head of the sail, so you just shackle it on. Securing it to the top of the mast varies from mast to mast, on my 400 it is threaded through a hole drilled the masthead casting. Other people put the end through a p-clip on the masthead sheave spindle and tie a knot in it. You have to watch for chafe, and maybe chop a couple of inches off every few months to lose the worn bit. I use a spectra halyard, excel racing.
If you get the right size shackle, the main will go up just as far as tying it on 1:1, at least on my boat.

The other thing on the 600 is getting the kicker slack enough to not have any leach tension when you are trying to hoist. The cascade lengths need to be exactly right because the rules only allow a 2x2x2x2 cascade.
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craiggo View Drop Down
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Posts: 1810 		Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 12 at 8:31pm
Back when I campaigned my 600, the standard practice for halyards was as follows:
1:1 Kevlar halyard.
1) Pull the main to the top of the mast.
2) where the halyard exits the mast tie a loop in the tail.
3) run the tail down around the boom bolt and back up and through the loop that you tied.
4) pull as hard as you can on the tail.
5) undo the loop and stow the halyard tail.

This method allows you to get sufficient tension in the halyard to take out all the stretch in the halyard, and also induce a little pre-bend in the mast.

If after this the sail slips down with cunningham use, then your cleat needs replacing.

The alternative to the method above is to hoist the main to the top and then tie the cunningham tail to the halyard tail and use the cunningham system to pre-load the halyard.
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fudheid View Drop Down
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Posts: 241 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fudheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 12 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by fudheid

standard rivets will do the job, they won't crush carbon (if its made properly)

Not so. There are issues are with how the rivets are used, not how the laminate is laid up. For example the hole for the rivet must be exactly to size, otherwise there will be damage.

Only passing on the wisdom of one of the biggest riggers in the country. He uses standard rivets, had never heard of 'special' carbon rivets. Thought i was taking the mickey!
I'm not a rigger but went to see them to ask about it, was a job a fairly pracitical person can do you just need duralac, be careful making the holes and then cover everything liberally with duralac.
Obviously if my mast fails here i will eat my words LOL
Cheers you

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Posts: 642 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rockhopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 12 at 1:45pm
All i do with mine is pull as hard as you can to the top the tie off just after cleat just below the boom and it works a treat i had my cleat fall off in one race and the main stayed up
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