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So maybe my scow bow idea isnot so silly after all |
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G.R.F. 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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 Topic: So maybe my scow bow idea isnot so silly after allPosted: 05 Nov 11 at 11:29pm |
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Well my motifs were entirely selfish, nothing honourable or competition success thinking, just needed to overcome my height, weight and now age disadvantages the way i usually do, having to think different.
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Menace
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 16 Oct 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 296 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 9:38pm |
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Rubbish uphill though and not that pretty to look at and sell to the general public...
I reckon he's got an XOD Al, down Chichester harbour or something like that.
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alstorer
Really should get out more
Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 9:31pm |
I reckon if you were a yachtie, you'd be a mini sailor- unconventional, willing to push the boundaries of what's possible, plus being as mad as a box of frogs already you wouldn't "go" insane trapped on a tiny yacht on your own for over a week. I wonder of the Volvo 70 rules would actually allow a boat shaped like that? They do bill themselves as the fastest ocean racing monohulls, I wonder if they have considered going away from pointy bows? |
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Al |
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Menace
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 16 Oct 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 296 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 9:08pm |
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Graeme, didn't think you ever came across as "know it all". The fact you turn around and say, why does sailing have to be like it is, sort of goes against the "know it alls". It's the people who say, "It's got to be like that because it's always been like that and it will always be like that because it always has to be like that...." That pi$$ me off. Think you call them "c*n*servatives".
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G.R.F.
Really should get out more
Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 7:53pm |
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I've never claimed to 'know it all' but I have experienced more in a roundabout way in another sector having always been present and contributing at most of the major changes in the various progressions and forward leaps that windsurfing made over the thirty odd years I was involved in it.
Lots of stuff we did in windsurfing found it's way into yottie stuff, but we didn't have the extreme weight issues that dinghies and sailboats have, nor the stress loadings. I could wax poetic all night about my negative opinion of the Aussie skiff and it's suitability for application in our water in anything other than that narrow band of perfect condition force 2-4 and Sydney Harbour wave height. It takes all sorts though and what suits one condition rarely suits another, hence my bet hedging with that bloody great tunnel down the middle of my creation, it keeps my options open, sail flat, or heel and lift a hull, it'll be interesting finding out which is faster and that will be wind and water condition dependant. Whatever it does no harm whatsoever (other than to my wallet) trying something different and I'm really pleased for that guy in the mini transat, ugly it may be, uncool he may look, but there is no greater feeling than winning a big event by a considerable margin and he must be on top of the world as a result and credit to him and whoever put that together for him.
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Menace
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 16 Oct 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 296 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 5:08pm |
Too true Rupert, the worst mistake is to take something as verbatum and then think it applies to everything else. I see too often guys who think they know it all and then do work on something subtley different and wonder why things go wrong based on the assumption everything is the same. I've got a lot of time for the Bethwaites as they'll look at something, and ask the questions then answer them, not the case of we know it all and then never notice they don't. Sort of similar to Graeme in a funny round about way.
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alstorer
Really should get out more
Joined: 02 Aug 07 Location: Cambridge Online Status: Offline Posts: 2899 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 3:07pm |
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They'd also be highly, highly amused at the idea of sailing scows on water that's got any sort of waves on it. I know furballs are technically scows, and the same goes for toppers- but they're exceptions. |
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Al |
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Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 12:01pm |
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In light winds reducing wetted surface is everything, thats why, and it is why a Firefly will sail circles round a 29er is that weather.
And while numbers don't lie, they only give the right answer if you are asking the correct question. With the number of variables in sailing, numbers are never going to tell the whole story.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Menace
Far too distracted from work
Joined: 16 Oct 10 Online Status: Offline Posts: 296 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 11:47am |
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Yeah, but a boat designed to sail in it's side like a scow will never be as efficient as a boat designed to sail flat. My assumption has always been that if you heel a yacht, you lose a lot more resistance than your aero losses and foil losses, so the penalty on drive is less than the gains you get from heeling. If you look at the picture all together from an analytical point of view, in theory, the aero and foil losses actually account for a lot more than the gains you get from increased resistance. You're foil efficiency, aero and hydro takes a hit on drive and pointing ability, plus with some boats, the free surface effects of the keel breaking with the water actually make the picture look a lot worse. It took me a little while to get my head round this as the helm of the yachts I used to sail was bloody adament that a certain angle of heel was fastest. The numbers don't lie and a one of the guys involved currently with the AC45s took a look at my work and said, you're right.
However, if you sail a single handed boat, like a mini-transit, and have worked out; I need to carry at least a certain ammount of sail to be as quick as everyone else and that makes my boat heel at x angle, I cannot physically sail the boat upright, so lets exploit this and design the boat round sailing at that angle and optimise hull shape around that fact. Can see where the scow may have come from in that instance, but she'll be slow upwind and when sailed upright, compared to pointier boats. The thing that gets me, is even after the work I've done, and the numbers added up, why the hell when it's light is a 49er faster in fourth mode sailing, heeled, bow down? Must be lifting that massive @rse end up, which I reckon would be the same for fast planing yachts.
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Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 11 at 10:43am |
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The Americans would be laughing at this thread - they have been sailing big scows for a long, long time, and going very fast in them, whatever mr Aussie Bethwaite says. Absolute speed may be lower than a skiff, but the ability to sail at a high % of that speed is better in the scow, especially if you aren't able to train 7 days week.
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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