University Sailing

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by zippyRN

from my point of view having had the dubious honour of attending 2 unis as an undergraduate , admitted both were now a few years ago  but within the last decade,  university sailing is dominated by  a faction of a rahs! who cannot see beyond  team racing,  they do not want peopel who can actually sail as part of university sailing  instead are happy to stay in their  isolated  cul de sac of sailing and  don't want people to join them in that cul-de -sac incase they get shown up by those who have both boatspeed  and  boat handling skills   like  many of the  people who grow up sailing in family / racing  clubs and also get into both 'sides' of the RYA system ( i.e. the sailing / instructing  and race training) 

erm- if you didn't like team racing, why didn't you compete in the fleet racing at the Student National (British University Sport Association) that have been in Plymouth/Weymouth of late?  There's been a handicap fleet for as long as I remember and I've seen everything from a Topper Cruz to an 18ft skiff on the start line, so you can't come back with the I hate larks./laser 2s/fireflies argument- you could take any boat you had access to... of course, you would have needed to get involved with the university clubs to have found that out....

not always pratical and in one case the complete opposite end of thecountry to the particualr uni in question 

full of rah's heh- so you think uni sailing is 'elitist', sorry to disappointment you... sailing IS elitist!  A typical new dinghy costs the best part of the post-tax income of the annual average british wage...  actually I found a fairly diverse mix of people from all sorts of backgrounds when sailing at uni, but yes, most of them were not from the roughest council estates imaginable.  But then I doubt many of your contempories following the 'RYA method' were either.... 

always found a fair mix , it's also a function of schools sailing provision  and local clubs involvement  with the  community that have an effect.
because there was schools sailing provision it got me and by extension my brother and my (now departed) dad into sailing ... 
new boat might cost  the greater proprtion of  the  annual wage of the average person but a  decent enough  laser / topper/  Ent /GP / N12  or even a Fireball can be had  for  1000gbp ... especially if the the inital aim is a boat to sail and do a bit of club racing ...
club sailing especially inland isn't necessarily aobut the  latest bit of kit  or the newest fastest  boats ... but still doesn't stop there being good sailing  and good sailors at these clubs or perhaps having national level sailors i nthe club and a world champion havign started out at a club isn't enough ...

Your points re the actual sailing & skills required are also flawed:
You could have tried the BUSA (Sailing) Match Racing for small keelboats- of course you would have need to have got involved with the sailing club to have found three other people to form a crew with you. 

was this about 5 -10 years ago  becasue despite membership of  Uni sialing clubs i never heard aobut it , never mind  talk of gettign crews up - again how practical would it be for a yorkshire or Northern uni to take part? - especially given that many sciene , engineering and all health professional students  would need to be back  at uni for 0900 monday morning?

Fancy something a bit bigger?  Why not get a yacht team together and do the BUSA Yachting Nationals?  Again, you can't argue they 'didn't do it'- get involved and make it happen if you feel that the current sailing is not to your liking.
As for the comments on boat handling and boat speed... well of course I needed neither of those things to get out of a mark trap, or to get myself somewhere into a 1,2,3 position off the start line; in fact conventional tactics like shifts and tide didn't feature at all, and as for communication... well it's not like you've got to communicate to a crew and two other boats as well is it....? (sarcasm doesn't work very well online so I'll cut it out, but basically, you're talking sh*te!)  

odd then that i could out boat handle all the team racing  'hot shots'   there then ... as for spped most had appaling  wind  awareness  they were more interested in their little play book of pushing the RRS to breaking point  than sailing  

Boat handling and acceleration are the two most fundamental attributes that a successful team racer needs.  They're critical on small courses in non-planing dinghies, especially when you're all too often over optimum crew weight for the class being sailed. 

 you are talking like  those sailing instructors who believe that  mastery of the instructing side makes them a god of sailing   despite the fact their  wind awareness and  innate  sailing ability is stuck somewhere around level 3 
used to really upset a coupel of the lads i sailed at school with  when me and my then helm  would  siail them off the water in a  late pre baggy  N12  vs their shiny L2R  becasue of their shocking boat handling skills and complete lack of wind and tactical awarness - why  pure time on the water  - yes my helm and I could and did instruct but we aere also  out  on the water racing as much as we could as well  whether together ( until we really did get too heavy for the n12) or alone in  respective lasers ...

You can't just march straight into a uni sailing team just because you collected some silverware in your club's topper fleet and you know the annotations to the RYA capsize drill off by heart... you need to prove yourself, we all like to talk up our sailing in the bar beforehand, but you need to prove it on the water in the trials and most teams want the best sailors they can field, it's hardly nepotism in action.  

except of course when the trials are formalities to answer any accusation of bias  and don't concentrate on testign sailing ability but instead on whose has memorised the 'public schoolboys book of rrs wheezes and set piece team racing  tactics'

I know from first hand experience that both Newcastle & Durham's team trials start out as fleet races over short courses with tight start lines- testing boat handling and boat speed pre-start above all else, carefully observed by team capatains from the start boat.  I bet 99% of other unis start team selection this way too; how else do you split into the 'training teams' without running the fleet first to see who's stronger than who?  

obviously much improved from the recent past then 

As I said before at my old uni, we had a policy to ensure freshers were in the 1st team- to be fair there was always someone good enough to displace the balance of the previous year anyway, so it was hardly an issue.  Given a little practice, (e.g. a term of training) a good sailor can team race at the highest uni levels  and an excellent sailor will flourish regardless of prior 'team' experience! 

depends if you let them 

I am sorry you had a bad experience of two student sailing clubs- it would be interesting to know which ones... but it does sound like you have a jaundiced view of team racing as whole; a negative perception of the existing club members at both universities and most importantly, a clear lack of insight about what sailing quickly around very short courses is all about.  Combining these three factors together and I guess yes, you wouldn't be selected would you?

you obviously haven't read  or understood a single thing i said ...
as for sailing quickly around short courses  obviously sailing on a relatively  modestly sized inland water ( rendered in fact into two linked wayters    other than a couple of very limited wind conditions ,  and having beeen all the way through both sides of the RYA system  ( up to winter training on the racing side) counts for nothing  when sailing at a university is dominated by the 'sloanes' who have  already acgreed next years team durign the summer 

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Edited by zippyRN