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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Who's for the chop or ...
    Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 5:32pm
The ISAF will be so desperate to keep sailing in the Olympics that they'll bow to the pressure to cut numbers and/or classes

100's of swimming events, beach volleyball, dozens of cycling disciplines, multiple shooting categories... never mind all the 'peripheral' stuff that goes on at the winter olympics (can anyone seriously argue that snowboard half-pipe should be an olympic sport????).... the trouble is, sailing is a tough one for the sponsors and tv companies to get excited about, 'specially when you choose a venue like Quindao (or however you spell it...)

.... now Weymouth - that's a good venue potentially!  let's hope there's still some sailing on the calendar when the circus comes to town
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WildWood View Drop Down
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Posts: 136 		Post Options Post Options   Quote WildWood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 3:49pm

I think there are great arguements for all the current Olympic classes and legitimate reasons for them all to remain.  We should be questioning why any of them need to be dropped rather than which one should go. 

When you look at certain other Olympic sports its hard to see why sailing should not retain the number of medals it currently has.  Look at swinning for example - there are mens and womens medals for each different type of stroke for a whole range of distances.  The same goes for athletics and many other disciplines.  Hopefully the ISAF are putting up a good arguement for retaining all the current classes

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Posts: 196 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tornado435 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 3:00pm

I honestly don't think that the Tornado is any more expensive than say F18 would be if it were an olympic class.

Owning and running a club level tornado is on a par if not cheaper than an F18 as you can pick up second hand kit from the squad guys. Good spinnakers for 300 - 400 pounds for example. A new kite is about 800 pounds I think, certainly not far off of F18 prices.

True the top guys are running through different sail cuts and foil profiles etc and that gets pricey but you would get the same happening with F18.

At Weymouth last month the Tornado fleet was very similarly equipped with very few radical or far out ideas.  

As Rick says, provide the kit or be strict on the one design is the only way to keep costs very low
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Posts: 0 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 1:00pm

The only way you can stop the arms race in Olympic equipment is to provide it ... or use a class with strict rules e.g. 49er.

Rick
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 12:31pm

catamerans at the olympics is a tricky thing, because from an ideal world point of view you want the fastest most powerful small cat on show.  But then on the other hand getafix does indeed make a good point that the tornado is just so expensive!  I think the F18 would make a great choice for the olympics but i was under the impression (though correct me if im wrong) that the F18 guys dont want it as the olympic boat.  The F18 majority, as with a lot of classes, dont want to be in a situation where you HAVE to be full time to stand a chance of getting anywhere near the top. 
And of course by choosing a "cheaper" class for the olympics, just think of the sail development, rig develpment, boat development, foil development that will then go on!  All of a sudden that nicely priced F18 becomes somewhere in the region of the price of a tornado.  I know its longwinded but classes can potentially be destroyed by the olympics. 



Edited by Doug.H
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getafix View Drop Down
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Posts: 2143 		Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 06 at 11:05am
no way is the Laser going to get  binned, they only just switched the radial on as the women's single hander.  The risky stuff is the keelboats (remember the Soling?) and the repetitive classes - Finn & Laser at the olympics?  I can't see Mr Henderson and his ex-Finn pals being happy about it, nor do I think it's a bad boat, but to the impartial marketing orientated IOC looking in from outside without a vested interest, they're going to want some good justification for why there's so much overlap in the sailing events - two mens single handers, two mens double handed?

Perhaps the ISAF should bite the bullet this time, switch the two 470 fleets to one mixed one and prepare to lose the Finn in the name of progress, while they're at it they could allow the men and women to race together in one keelboat class - say J80 or M24 or similar and drop the Tornado (way too expensive for smaller nations to support) in favour of something that would be easier to race as a supplied class and something that could be raced by mixed crews (i.e. F16 or F18).  The Star and Yngling aren't going to help spread sailing outside of the Olympic arena and too many more practical (and exciting) choices exist for your bucks, same with the Tornado....
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CT249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 399 		Post Options Post Options   Quote CT249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 06 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by Rob.e

No way would the Laser succeed today as a new class! It came out as the right boat at the right time- light, exciting, simple, and giving good close racing, but now as a 30something year old design I think the only reasons most people buy them are 1: they think they have a chance to get in a squad or go to the olympics, or 2: they know they can buy one easily locally, and sell it equally easily at whatever price range suits them, and there will almost certainly be someone else that sails one nearby.

IMHO the Laser is possibly the most horrible boat I have ever owned, and I actually gave up sailing for a couple of years after owning one, I hated it so much, but even I have considered buying one again in my desperation for class racing. (Fortunately I found out there wasn't actually much around here, and got a decent boat instead )



What in particular made you think they were so horrible, Rob? I know they are not the ultimate sailing machine, but I'm curious why you thought they were that bad.

I chose one for (2) and;

(3) it's very quick to rig;
(4) as far as I can see, it's the ultimate no b.s. class; all strict one design, no crew to blame, just get on the water and prove what you can do in massive fleets.
(5) it's actually a rather nice little boat. Quite fast for a non-hiking singlehander; great fun for roll-tacking etc.

It is different here around Sydney, though. We have no big local class like the Solo, so basically there's a few Canoes, a couple of dozen Moths (mainly old scows), a dozen Impulse/Sabres (local Solo types), and about 400 Lasers, mainly in fleets of 15 to 40. In a way it's the only class where a state or national title really creates a state or national champ, IMHO.


Edited by CT249
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FireballNeil View Drop Down
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Posts: 654 		Post Options Post Options   Quote FireballNeil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 06 at 9:44pm
Nothing against Cherubs lol! It's just that's the club nickname for Iain Christie's "Suicide Blonde", so when someone mentions a scrapheap challenge boat it just reminds me of Cherubs! I personally think they are absolutely awesome!
Neil

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Sarah B View Drop Down
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Posts: 92 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sarah B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 06 at 9:22pm

Its probably more than the boat, rather the quality of racing the boat delivers. The Laser, much as I'm not its biggest fan, there is not a lot you can do to it and as a supplied class tactical skill is paramount.

Anyway perhaps to make it more TV friendly there should be a 100metre sprint equivalent. None of this sailing around in circle for an hour and a scoring system joe public cannot understand. Get a bunch of 9ers or cats with their kites up - gun goes BANG - who wins the drag race - crash and burn! Of course this only works if the venue has wind - grrh!

 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
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mike ellis View Drop Down
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Posts: 2339 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mike ellis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 06 at 9:08pm
you have to admit, the guy has a point. especialy as the original specification was just give them so carbon and some sail cloth
600 732, will call it Sticks and Stones when i get round to it.
Also International 14, 1318
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